Video clip of """collateral murder""""

[Black 6]

Looked righteous to me.

[Slowpoke]

One of the things that pissed me off was their whining about the guys going about killing people in a "Business-like manner"....... DOH! That's the business they're in!!!!

[Flesh Thorn]

One of the things that pissed me off was their whining about the guys going about killing people in a "Business-like manner"....... DOH! That's the business they're in!!!!

X2
I watched the video and all I saw was some Apache pilots doing their jobs. I am curious as to how/why/who leaked this video to start with.

[K.Ingraham]

If a couple of legit journalists want to tool around with their cameras with the bad guys and get a story, good for them - that's their job. But they need to understand, war is 'big boy's rules'. Wandering a war zone is risky. When you choose to be in the presence of armed combattants, you risk death via the other side who can rarely discriminate about whatever it is that you are pointing or carrying. If observers want to play, then some must pay - it's the nature of the beast. If you want to play and are stupid as well, you cash out like these bozos did.

One thing it seems that we never see, and that is a group such as hosts that website (or most of my professors) ever criticising the barbarians for smoking press photographers who walk with American patrols - unless it is to criticise the journalists for "being too close to the administration" for even trying to get a grunt's eye view from our side.

This is a tough fight precisely because it is an information war, a war for perceptions; not for real estate, body count, the 'truth' or any of our other comfortable preferences. Successsfully defending a COP in the Kush foothills, for example, really doesn't matter so long as the opfor thinks they win just by having filmed one Yank going down and getting it out across the WWW.

[KW Driver]

and camera crews are also a bad guy TTP. cameras in and around AKs and RPGs, yeah, should have been wearing something more to show they were a legit news service. and weapons were policed up with the bodies. didn't hear that part though, did we?

this was edited, based on guys who worked with the crew. the original is much longer, so there's less contectual understanding of this fight.

[Kilted Heathen]

For Military Science class we covered the issue with this video. I don't want to be the an arm chair quarterback but I don't think it was a good shoot on the second engagement.
The first engagement in my cadet opinion was good. A group of men huddled together with rpg7s and ak's is definitely a viable target. However when the van comes around to help a wounded casualty with no sign of weapons or combatants in sight, its hard to say the engagement criteria was met. Especially after the fact that 2 children were wounded as a result.

Yeah this is coming from just a ROTC kid but if you listen to the differences in tones from the Apache pilots and the infantry who come in afterwards, you can tell the difference in the give-a-shit o'meter when iceing children and noncombatants.Talking with some infantryman in my vicinity who have experiences with Apaches, I wouldn't be so quick to run in the defense of guys who shoot the enemy from several miles away over the infantryman who is in the fight and sees the results .

Of course i agree that the "media" is pushing this with too much fervor but what else would you expect from the media? Also no way am i saying we shouldn't give the benefit of the doubt to soldiers, but shit happens and more often than not that shit aint kosher.

Er....who the fuck are you again?

[Dan B 3/75]

For Military Science class we covered the issue with this video. I don't want to be the an arm chair quarterback but I don't think it was a good shoot on the second engagement.
The first engagement in my cadet opinion was good. A group of men huddled together with rpg7s and ak's is definitely a viable target. However when the van comes around to help a wounded casualty with no sign of weapons or combatants in sight, its hard to say the engagement criteria was met. Especially after the fact that 2 children were wounded as a result.

Yeah this is coming from just a ROTC kid but if you listen to the differences in tones from the Apache pilots and the infantry who come in afterwards, you can tell the difference in the give-a-shit o'meter when iceing children and noncombatants.Talking with some infantryman in my vicinity who have experiences with Apaches, I wouldn't be so quick to run in the defense of guys who shoot the enemy from several miles away over the infantryman who is in the fight and sees the results .

Of course i agree that the "media" is pushing this with too much fervor but what else would you expect from the media? Also no way am i saying we shouldn't give the benefit of the doubt to soldiers, but shit happens and more often than not that shit aint kosher.

O.K. cadet, so you don't think it was a "good shoot" eh?

What were the rules of engagement? You don't know.

Was this a chance encounter, or were the birds called in on station in support of troops in contact? You don't know.

Was there a description of the insurgents and a location given? You don't know.

Was there ever a report of the vehicle that got engaged being used by insurgent elements? You don't know.

Was the area a historic enemy engagement area? You don't know.

Who carries RPG's besides enemy and uniformed Iraqi security forces? You don't know.

Stick with your studies and wait until you join the team before you pass judgment on shit you are completely ignorant about.

[Seabass1-4]

DEC, my first thought is for you to keep your ball washer shut until you see the elephant.
My second thought is for you to get stuffed.
Keep your critiques to your stupid self.

[wade_the_duck]

Protocol III of the Geneva Conventions states pretty clearly that medical vehicles and personnel must be wearing a distinctive emblem (red cross, red crescent, etc) if they want protection under the laws of war. As this van in question was lacking such markings it gets no legal protection when trying to pick up what was believed to be a wounded insurgent, even if it was filled with 101 Dalmatian puppies.

[panthersix]

For Military Science class..........that shit aint kosher.

You're welcome to re-post after watching your friends burn to death and get their heads blown off.

War is killing and killing means everything and everybody in the war zone and that's why we're trying to keep our wars overseas.