ACOG

[BadMuther]

Aimpoint.................I am with SB on this one. I tried all styles of the ACOG (TA-11, TA-55, TA-31), I never liked any of them, alot of it is due to the fact that we operate in both urban and rural environments. Also, until recently, the fellas without Aimpoints had problems shooting their weapons accurately under NODS until we recently got the PEQs.

I went back to the Aimpoint a year ago, love it and will stay with it. We recently got the Aimpoint 3X magnifiers that mount in the same GG&G low PVS-14 mount behind the Aimpoint, so great operational interchangability.

Long story short( ), stick with something that provides more versatility, EOTech or Aimpoint.

Dumbass, SB's post was against aimpoints in favor of EO Tech's.


I have a Trijicon ACOG Reflex and a TA-31F. I love both of them. Still have a hard time getting used to magnification at CQB distances with the TA-31f.

SunDevil, What did they cover in this 2 week class???

Jim

[SunDevilWrestler]

SunDevil, What did they cover in this 2 week class???

This is what we did in the class:

1) Zeroing (25m / 100m)
2) Qualified (300m Pop-ups / Must qual Expert)
3) Known Distance Shooting (300m - 600m)
4) Range Estimation through ACOG
5) Target Detection through ACOG
6) CQM Tables
7) Qualified (300m - 600m) *2 shots per silhouette / 1 shot solely for windage**

We did a lot of work with windage values (Full / Half) and were taught how to estimate the speed of the wind. They also taught us how to read the "mirage" through the ACOG so that we coul adjust our shot accordingly.

We spent a lot of classroom time at night covering ballistics.

-SDW

[BadMuther]

Fuck, I guess I am a dumbass, I swear when I read it yesterday it said he was "against" the age old red dots.

My bad Sean, sorry.

As far as magnification and cqb distances, I've trained with it where I can get pretty quick with it, but still engaging multiple targets at close range I'd rather have no magnification then 4x. Without any magnification I can still hit no problem out to 300. Past that and my 6.5 moa dot starts getting bigger then the target.


SunDevil Wrestler,

What they say about zeroing at 25? Just curious. Mine is zeroed at 100 to take advantage of the range estimation/bdc features.

[SunDevilWrestler]

I think the 25m Zero was more of a familiarization than anything else. We spent very little time at 25m. They backed us off to 100m very quickly.

When we were in the classroom they pretty much told us what has been stated above....the 100m zero is the preferred method.

[SunDevilWrestler]

Hey SDW, why was the course 2 weeks long? The one I went through was only one week, and it was more than sufficient, almost too much other than we got to blow alot of rounds downrange.

Did you all do alot of transtioning from close targets (CQB range) to deep targets (beyond 100m)?

It was a decent course. It was the first time I ever experienced a manufacturer actually give a shit about its product and training those to get the best benefit from their product.

The reason the course was 2 weeks was because we spent an abundance of time on target detection. Plus they spread out the classroom time so that some days we never even went to the range.

In my opinion the course was too long. For the calibre of people they are training, the instructors go too in-depth on some of the classroom training. But the instructors are from the US Army Sniper School and are very passionate about what they teach.

It's a great course for the Regular Army who will incorporate the SDM position in their squad elements but for someone headed to the Regiment it's more of a familiarization with an optic you won't ever use.

The SDM concept will never work in Regiment because of the calibre of SNOT.

[BadMuther]

Fuck, I guess I am a dumbass, I swear when I read it yesterday it said he was "against" the age old red dots.

My bad Sean, sorry.

As far as magnification and cqb distances, I've trained with it where I can get pretty quick with it, but still engaging multiple targets at close range I'd rather have no magnification then 4x. Without any magnification I can still hit no problem out to 300. Past that and my 6.5 moa dot starts getting bigger then the target.


SunDevil Wrestler,

What they say about zeroing at 25? Just curious. Mine is zeroed at 100 to take advantage of the range estimation/bdc features.

No problem dude......

Are you able to use the Bindon aiming concept or are you one of those 1%ers that cannot?

As for zeroing at the 25, what exactly do you want to know about it? Trijicon highly recommends you zero it at the 100 for the very reasons you just stated.

I also went through the Trijicon course in 2004, when they first gave us the TA-11s, TA-47s and the 55s. Maybe I can answer it for you.

I'm a 1% but it's gotten a lot better with practice. I can blast away in training at cqb distances with no problems, but I don't have the comfort level with it at short range to take it into harms way.

I was just curious what they were saying about the 25 zero. Mine is zeroed for 100, as per their recommendations.

[Silverback]

Fuck, I guess I am a dumbass, I swear when I read it yesterday it said he was "against" the age old red dots.

My bad Sean, sorry.

As far as magnification and cqb distances, I've trained with it where I can get pretty quick with it, but still engaging multiple targets at close range I'd rather have no magnification then 4x. Without any magnification I can still hit no problem out to 300. Past that and my 6.5 moa dot starts getting bigger then the target.


SunDevil Wrestler,

What they say about zeroing at 25? Just curious. Mine is zeroed at 100 to take advantage of the range estimation/bdc features.

No problem dude......

Are you able to use the Bindon aiming concept or are you one of those 1%ers that cannot?

As for zeroing at the 25, what exactly do you want to know about it? Trijicon highly recommends you zero it at the 100 for the very reasons you just stated.

I also went through the Trijicon course in 2004, when they first gave us the TA-11s, TA-47s and the 55s. Maybe I can answer it for you.

I'm a 1% but it's gotten a lot better with practice. I can blast away in training at cqb distances with no problems, but I don't have the comfort level with it at short range to take it into harms way.

I was just curious what they were saying about the 25 zero. Mine is zeroed for 100, as per their recommendations.

There are offset targets for just about any device mountable on a weapon, There is a very extensive FOUO collection of 25 Meter zero targets.

[Silverback]

the 100m zero is the preferred method.

If you've ever executed the full Army marksmanship plan the reason this is done is a no-brainer. The Army (as a whole) has been shortcutting our own plan as long as I have been in, I say that because conducting a KD range should be the rule and not the exception.

[Horned Toad]

I'm a 1% but it's gotten a lot better with practice. I can blast away in training at cqb distances with no problems, but I don't have the comfort level with it at short range to take it into harms way.

At really close distances, it is really how much you shoot and how confident you are. You have to figure out what the overall shift in point of aim vs. point of impact at different distances (under 15 yds).

Say for instance, in Hostage Rescue operations, you are going to press the threat until you make an almost contact shot with him. As you flood into the room and took your angle of attack, I always knew, with etreme confidence, that if I place the chevron of my TA-11 at the hairline of the threat, my point of impact would always be between the eyes or the very top portion of the bridge of the nose, depending if I was at 3 yds or 7 yds.

It is all about repetitive training at these distances so you INSTINCTIVELY know where to place you chevron each time.

The TA-11s and TA-31s sit so high on the weapon that you will almost always have a 2.5 in to 4 in difference at close ranges.

at 15 yards or less why are you not just referencing the front sight, I don’t know how many rounds I put into rows and rows of little circles just using the front sight, I think its called muscle memory