Introduction

Grumble and Grunt · October 20th, 2005, 7:15 am

The Orwell quote will come to mean a lot more to you with time. Welcome...

Roger that, to me it means that if I was still a civilian I would get to sleep

Bell · Post by **Bell** » October 20th, 2005, 8:32 am

Welcome here.

RLTW
Bell

Jim · Post by **Jim** » October 20th, 2005, 12:49 pm

Grumble and Grunt wrote:
The Orwell quote will come to mean a lot more to you with time. Welcome...
Roger that, to me it means that if I was still a civilian I would get to sleep

G&G,
Not just civilians -- and by the way, how about looking up the quote and explain the context.

Grumble and Grunt · October 20th, 2005, 5:04 pm

"Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep" - Rudyard Kipling

The Orwell quote is actually unattributed but bears a resemblance to an essay Orwell wrote on Kipling's poem "Tommy".

Orwell (1903-1950) was an Indian born Brit who grew up in a wealthy imperialist family but lived for many years destitute and in a state of vagrancy. He worked as a police minister in British occupied India and came to despise both the class system and exploitation. He was a committed socialist, specifically an English socialist and fought against the Francoists in the Spanish Civil War. Orwell despised totalitarianism in both the Soviet and Nazi varieties and solidly supported Allied soldiers in their efforts to contain and quarantine or defeat these enemies of democracy. He wrote both "Animal Farm" and "1984" which criticize forced communes and the oppression of free speech and will respectively. From his library one could interpret Orwell as a man against using force to exact demands of others yet still recognizing the value in a standing Army which is bound to the purpose of defending a free society and being held ultimately to the scrutiny of that society via its elected officials. Orwell was a strong individualist and struggled against intellectual and political domination, bureaucracies, and bullies.

Sources:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Orwell
1984
Animal Farm

AztecSN95 · Post by **AztecSN95** » October 20th, 2005, 5:28 pm

Grumble and Grunt you had some great material and I'd like to make a few additions.

For anyone unfamiliar with his works, George Orwell is the pen-name for Eric Blair. His time served with the Indian Imperial Police in Burma started in 1922, after which he faught with the Loyalists in the Spanish Civil War (as you already stated). He actually tried to enlist to help combat the Nazis in 1939, but was declared medically unfit for duty as he had contracted Tuberculosis in Morocco sometime prior. Instead, he continued to write and got a job with the BBC from 1941 to 1943. You were correct in states that it is an "author unknown" quote, but in his essay on Rudyard Kipling (1942), Orwell wrote: "[Kipling] sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilised, are there to guard and feed them." (Thanks to Keith Ammann for this). And in his 'Notes on Nationalism' (1945) he wrote: "Those who "abjure" violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf." (Thanks to Parbety). Where the rough men crept in is anyone's guess." The original origin stemmed somewhere from here I'm sure.

As per the actual context, there is an amazing poem that I will let sum up Orwell's meaning (as I have never seen combat and refuse to venture on what it truly means to fight for those I love at home).

Rough Men

â€œGood people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.â€

Jim · Post by **Jim** » October 21st, 2005, 5:41 am

G&G: you got a SAT at this station.

Aztec: You get your first good spot report. You have successfully encapsulated a lot of what many of us FOGs truly believe. Well done.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » October 21st, 2005, 7:22 am

Aztec:

I liked this entry:

Did George Orwell ever say: "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf?" Or: "We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us?"

Not exactly. But he did make comments that were along similar lines. In his essay on Rudyard Kipling (1942), Orwell wrote: "[Kipling] sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilised, are there to guard and feed them." (Thanks to Keith Ammann for this). And in his 'Notes on Nationalism' (1945) he wrote: "Those who "abjure" violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf." (Thanks to Parbety). Where the rough men crept in is anyone's guess.

-- The Chestnut Tree Cafe.

Hoover · Post by **Hoover** » October 21st, 2005, 7:48 am

Welcome......

trgrhappyaj · Post by **trgrhappyaj** » October 21st, 2005, 8:19 am

Welcome and good luck to you.