QuikClot?

[blueskiesalways]

A recent T.V news report stated that more soldiers than ever before are surviving serious battle time injuries. They also stated that this was due to a blood clotting agent called QUIKCLOT. Apparently this QuikClot pac is being issued only to Marine Corp soldiers and that the Army are still using compress type pacs that, may "sometimes" stop bleeding. They also mentioned it was a supply and demand problem.
After a little reasearch I found a site that supply's this product to the general public for approx. $30.00 per pac. Apparently no medical training is needed to utilize the pacs.
Questions:

1)Does anyone have any additional information on this product?

2)Would the Army allow a soldier to carry them if they were sent to
the soldier personally?

3)Any known postal regulations detering shipment?

[Earthpig]

There is a lot of controversy regarding this product. It is pretty much shunned in the US, because it causes a chemical reaction which can reach high temperatures, causing tissue burn. This subject has been covered extensively on SOCNET. I've posted three thread links below which provide a lot of info. I would recommend paying particular attention to the posts by IMUA. He is a friend of mine, a former 2nd Bat Ranger, former SF medic, and when he isn't doing contract work in Iraq, he's a trauma surgeon in the Houston area. Quick clot literally saved his life around Christmas time. He was shot with a .50 cal round. Three tourniquets and 1 quick clot package later, he was still bleeding, but it had slowed enough that he made it the 30-some minutes to the Aid Station. He swears by it. If it's good enough for IMUA, it's good enough for me. I have no idea whether you could ship it and/or if the Army would allow your son to carry it. I would say take a chance and send it.
http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthr ... quick+clot
http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthr ... quick+clot
http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthr ... quick+clot
RLTW
EP

[Silverback]

2)Would the Army allow a soldier to carry them if they were sent to
the soldier personally?

You might want to think about this from the triage team's perspective. They are not prepared to receive personnel who's wounds have been treated with quick clot. It may be a good product but if it is used and no one in the traige knows about it, it could exacerbate any treatment problems.

[Earthpig]

2)Would the Army allow a soldier to carry them if they were sent to
the soldier personally?

You might want to think about this from the triage team's perspective. They are not prepared to receive personnel who's wounds have been treated with quick clot. It may be a good product but if it is used and no one in the traige knows about it, it could exacerbate any treatment problems.

Here are some points that IMUA made, regarding that:

"Two points...if one sustains a wound serious enough to have QC poured into it...then that person will almost certainly be taken to the OR for at least a "washout procedure"...so contamination isn't an isuue.
Point two...if you are opening a pack of QC, an exothermic chemical burn isn't your most important worry! By the way...I had no burn associated with my QC use."

RLTW
EP

[blueskiesalways]

Ranger EarthPig,
Thank you for the links. I found your friends experience to be a great persuader!!!...I also copied the correct usage procedure.
I also noted the dates on the posts. It seems the detractors are from an earlier time frame, and have little experience with war time application.
Maybe as usage of QuikClot is increased through unfortunate necessity, opinions of the product have also changed, favorably...The medic in the T.V. interview was a definate supporter.
I noted in one post a support group for the troops was interested in sending them to the soldiers...Also my thought for our next Legion drive...Little more critical than 1-900-I-love-Lucy phone cards
However, think i'll hold off on that idea untill they have been personally trained to use the stuff..knowing my luck, we'd get sued if it was used it incorrectly
I WILL be sending a number of them to my son...with the application procedures I copied... he can share them as he sees fit.
Glad to see you friend had a successful outcome!!!!
Thanks for you time...

[blueskiesalways]

Thank you Ranger Silverback,
Good point. It did appear from the interview that they are seeing it used in combat situation much more frequently.

[Earthpig]

As you read, IMUA was the head of the Med Team for one of the biggest contractor companies over there. All of his guys carried at least one...his medics carried more. According to him, it's pretty foolproof to use and is being used a lot in Iraq. I would say the chances of an Army doc not being familiar with it, especially one who is deployed over there, would be extremely slim.

Amazingly, IMUA saved not only his own life, but most of his foot. He has had additional surgeries since I saw him a month ago, but the docs claim he will be supporting weight on that foot in a few more months. He will never have vertical movement in his ankle again, but aside from that, he'll be GTG.

I have discussed this topic with people in the emergency medicine profession and all of them believe that QuickClot type products will be standard items on ambulances in the US in the coming years. Once it's battle proven, it will find it's way into mainstream first aid.

RLTW
EP

[ChipOnShoulder]

Quick clots should be used in conjunction with a tourniquet and pressure dressing. As far as the "burns" are concerned, it would be better to have a few hurts than bleed to death. In Iraq it was tough to get QC's but in a gun show recently they could be had for about 20 bucks!.....go figure. Anything new is great in combat medicine since it allows a greater survival rate for Joes getting hit.

[MaddMike275]

I know this several months over but to my knowledge its being issued to all units in country, (mine's a reserve unit and we have it) as for its use I've got buddies who swear by it and some who although they don't like it they can't deny its effectiveness. If I could choose I'd rather not use it, but again its hard to deny its effectiveness.

[ma91c1an]

Brothers, just a couple of minor and gentle corrections regarding my brother IMUA.

RB, as he is also known, started his military career with SF in the 1960's, as an SF medic, assigned to Project 404 out of Thailand, working cross-border ops in Laos.

After that, he served in a classified assignment in Berlin. That red-haired stepchild speaks perfect fucking German. It is rumored that he killed three Turks who made the mistake of attempting to mug him in a subway on the wrong side of some unknown European border, before the Berlin Wall fell. He did it hand to hand. He is a deadly fucker, and he has run his own dojo. Bob, ask him about this, the next time that you see him.

After that, RB did some SF NG liaison time, then he came to 2d Ranger Battalion, with his former junior medic from Det A, Frank Wallace, where RB was the senior medical NCO. Frank Wallace is one of the goofiest fuckers who ever wore a green or black beret. Great fucking PA, though, and a good man. That is where RB became one of my best friends. He was a senior SFC...and I want to say that I was a newly-tabbed SP4.

RB missed Urgent Fury by mere weeks. The success of 2d Ranger Battalion medics in Grenada can be laid at the feet of RB and Frank Wallace, though neither of them were ever recognized for building one of the great medical packages of that long lost era. These guys were pioneers. The reason that Rangers deploy with a spectacular medical package now, decades later, is because of the groundwork done by these guys back in the early 1980's. These are the guys who picked up where CPT Greg Gardner left off after his untimely demise at Indian Springs. It is because of these guys that Ranger medics went to the SF Medic course. I was one of the first four Ranger medics to graduate from Med Lab. It was all because of RB, and Frank Wallace, and Greg Gardner, that it even happened. The SOMED course, or whatever they are calling it these days, had its genesis in this initiative.

RB has been like a big brother to me for decades, now.

After 2d Bat, RB went to PA school. His assignment after becoming a PA was to 7th Group, and he worked down south in the mid to late 1980's. He was all over that motherfucker. Then he went to JSOC.

He was on the tarmac at Sigonella at the side of General Carl Stiner, when they faced off with the carabinieri over the Achiille Lauro highjackers who murdered Leon Klinghoffer.

RB retired out of JSOC, and worked as a PA. Back in 2003, he got bored, and I referred him to brother Al Buford over at Triple Canopy, where I was working at the time. Al knew quality when he saw it, but the really funny thing is, RB did not mention about 75% of his bonafides. Al sent me an email later after he read a post on my blog about RB. Al had no idea that RB had been in Det A, or in Project 404.

RB is the last guy to toot his own horn. He has a Silver Star, too, earned the hard way, running covert ops in the last big jungle war.

Not a slam, brother Bob. I am just very proud of RB. It has been an honor to know him, and to be his friend. And he would be the last guy to ever mention any of this history.

I think that it is important that folks know this stuff. After we die, who the fuck will ever know?

Thanks.

s.
-

[oedipusrex]

I realize this subject is a few months old but figured this was a good place to come looking for help. The AF has begun fielding this stuff to a hand full of units that do outside the wire ops and I was wondering how the Army, and the Ranger Battalions in particular are doing the training for this stuff. My initial training was in a live tissue lab but the AF's answer to mass training has been an online power point presentation. This to me in unacceptable.

My understanding of why the AF and the Army outside of ARSOC took so long to field it was becuse of improper use of QC on more superficial wounds that should have been managed with regular dressings. This is where the exothermic burns come into play by causing unnessary wound debridment when those troops reached the BAS.

So again, what sort of training on QC are your CLS and line troops getting on QC prior to deployment?

Thanks for the help.

SSgt :::NAME REMOVED BY ADMIN:::
IDMT/ NREMT-P
823rd SFS (not my current deployed unit designation btw)

"Every day is a holiday, every meal a feast, every formation a parade."

[oedipusrex]

Ranger Fish,

I agree with you on the use of the Hemcon, much smaller learning curve and easier to apply but the AF beng the corporate entity that it is has decided on quikclot for fiscal reasons rather than practical ones. We've got boxes and boxes of the stuff and haven't fielded yet because of training issues.

Any ideas on how to conduct some live tissue training in a deployed setting? I was considering getting my hands on a goat train 3 or 4 guys before trying to do a larger class.

Admin,
My apologies on the sig line. I've adjusted my site picture on that.

Thanks again Rangers, this site's been invaluable for me.

Rod
AF Medic

[resqparamedic]

Quickclot should not be off the shelf for the Army. Too many complications. They are using HemCon now, only when tournequets fail to stop the hemorrhaging. I am sure you can still find the QC, but the powers that be suggest using the HemCon. I believe that it is a powerpoint presentation for some. Others may get the benefit of live tissue.

In a recent Tactical Medicine class I attended it was reported that QC may be coming out with QC in a "teabag" like container that is stuffed into the wound. It helps control the collateral burns that come with QC. It will also help to keep it from being blow into area that it is not wanted, such as eyes, etc... There are many products out there now that work well and more are on the way.

One of the problems with QC and anything like it is the laziness factor. It is easier in someones mind to dump a bag into a wound and be able to pretty much forget about it then it is to try things like direct pressure, tourniquets, elevation, etc... So I think things like QC can be over used, quite often when they aren't needed.