Grappling

[warrior]

Nike Cat, That will get you so far. If you aren't ready to dig down and dirty, you are in for a ride . And sometimes you don't know who you are until you step up, either to a man who trained hard for yrs to get your head handed over to you or worst to man trying to blow your head off. That man will teach a lot about yourself.

[PJ1]

Currently we train Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Kickboxing, Stick and knife, and ultimately the art of Ching, Ching, Pow.

If you don't have mind set, then all else fails..

[joerng]

fighting is how you train not what you train. of course i think that is mostly bull shit. i have been learning a system called RAT rapid assult tactics. i love it. the best part about it is, it can be self tought... mostly. http://www.fighting.net/cruse/index.html here is one of many links where you can look at it.

PS: any one else heard of or doing this system?

S-5 out

[CCo275]

I was a private when SSG Larsen started kicking our asses and using Jiu Jitsu. (He went on to rewrite the combatives manual and is probably a black belt with the Gracies now.) We had the chance to have the Gracies come to Ft Lewis and play with us and then we went to CA to train with them. I had a BB in Tae Kwon Do and I got my ass handed to me. I think we forget the "old style" combatives that used to be taught. This is A LOT better than what was taught back then. This is not the only style to look at either. A good mix would also be to use some form of boxing or any other good stand up form. The bottom line is it all boils down to mind set. If you have the will to win you will rip his eyes out and shove a pig skin football up his ass (Muslims only). Train hard and shoot straight! RLTW!

[The Holmchicken]

I fucking suck at combatives. In Aco 2/75, they used to have us go out every Monday to the sawdust pit and beat the shit out of one another. You were paired by height. I was 6'1'', 170 pounds and everyone my height had 20+ pounds on me. So, I can say with authority, getting you're ass whipped sucks. This is what I learned as my career progressed:

1) shoot the motherfucker if you have a chance. If you don't, find a way

2) Use whatever is available. Beer bottles, MRE spoons, knives, boots, K- Pot, Time magazine, etc.

3) If you can get a guy on the ground, mokey stomp his ass until he/she/it stops moving

4) All the Gracie stuff they teach at battalion is designed to instill aggressiveness and to think under pressure. It's not neccesarily a fighting system.

5) Mr. Elbow and Mr. Throat Chop are excellent tools

I'm not a combatives guru by any means. I choke people (and not even all that well really) and that's about it. If you really have the desire to end someone's life, you'll make it happen.

[CrashKILL]

I used to go to Marcelo's all the time, and actually opened an affiliate school under him when I had to move to the east side of the state.

There's something to be said for being 210 and fit and then getting fucking owned by a guy who weighs 155lbs.

[BadMuther]

Here's a quandary.

Personally, I will use EVERYTHING at my disposal to hit/hurt/kill you with before I have to go hands on.

I was trained as a cop that there's no point in wrestling with bad guys. You only get hurt. Hit them with a maglite, pepper spray them, etc. Hands on is a last resort.

I look at is as I have no desire to fight a Gracie, karate, or whatever guy. I'll pepper spray and smack him in the head with a brick. If need be I'll shoot him.


Having said all that, combatives does interest me. My quandary is, how do you get good at that without suffering brain damage learning it???

I'd like to be a better fighter but I don't want to go to the hospital to learn to do so.

And, BTW, I'm not being a pussy, I just think more like Ranger Bell. Most fights I have been in have ended fairly quick. With me as the winner. I'm also a big fan of choking people.

[Kilted Heathen]

The Heathens' Four Fundamental Rules of Combatives

Rule 1:You can always beat a good fighter but you can never beat
a lucky bastard.

Rule 2:You cannot train for a kick in the balls.

Rule 3:There is no fucking rule 3

Rule 4:You cannot train for a kick in the balls!

[CrashKILL]

One thing that I like about brazilian jiu jitsu is that you can spar all out, minus the striking, and nobody gets hurt. Like wrestling, it'll smoke your fucking ass to no end.

There are several ways to apply your knowledge and skills as well. You can do gi jiu jitsu, which is where you wear your big ass judo gi/suit/ninja clothing, and you grapple. The good thing about that is that there is a whole new variety of chokes and submissions available, so it really sharpens your situational awareness and technique. Some of those techniques can be applied on somebody outside of training or competing as well, like anybody with a jacket on.

Then you have your no-gi submission wrestling. This is where you don't wear anything other than rash guards and shorts, similar to wrestling. There's less available, and strength and fitness really begin to make up for some lost technique. You still have to be careful, though.

Then you have MMA competition. Mixed Martial Arts. Get in the cage, gents.

The way I was trained was gi jj three days a week, no-gi two days a week and MMA one day a week. If you plan on competing, you do nothing but your competition task for quite some time leading up to it.

[CrashKILL]

I've had relatively little use for grappling in the combat zone. On the other hand, joint manipulation and pressure points are awesome when dealing with haji. I've trained combatives, boxed in college, have a few belts in Tae Kwon Do, and done a little Aikido on the side. When you are loaded down with your IBA, weapon, and all the miscellaneous bullshit you carry on patrol, you are not very effective on the ground, other than being heavy and awkward. For dealing with rowdy individuals during riots and even non-aggressors in room clearing, manipulating the wrist or crushing the knee allows you to keep control of the individual while maintaining your ability to see what's going on around you. Personally, as a combat martial art, I think arts such as Aikido are more effective that Jui Jitsu or a striking art like Tae Kwon Do.

thegunshow6 out

TKD is fucking useless. Aikido might work for some shit, but in a bar fight I'd definately prefer to know some Muay Thai for the standing and some Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for the ground. I'd also stay FAR away from a ring or cage if you plan on using aikido as your primary fighting "style".

[gpatmac]

On the other hand, joint manipulation and pressure points are awesome when dealing with haji.

I agree.

I can't even imagine on the contemporary battlefield where you're going to have that scene in Private Ryan where the sniper and the kraut get into it.

Essentially, you're gonna have your weapon and a defined ROE when dealing with an insurgent who has shown himself to be a combatant. I guess the only thing I could imagine is where haji is hidden while you're doing room clearing and pops out and tries to grab your weapon. If you're that close, I'd imagine that your best bet would be M4-fu.

The only need for anything close quarters when you might have to touch them nasty buggars, is during crowd control when one or a few realize that you can't shoot an unarmed flea-beard and gets uppity.

Regardless, the Army does most everything for more than one purpose, and teaching/drilling h2h, regardless of technique, is going to instill esprit de corps and give a hell of a workout.