Grappling

[EvilCouch]

Ranger HornedToad... I get the feeling you have no problem handling yourself. Anyone who wields a Strider large enough for a rappel anchor must be a true TmuthafuckinRex.

One of the not so great joys of the internet, that was not me that used the knife for a rappel anchor that was a very good friend of mine, who is also (in)famous for jumping off the Savanna River bridge witha T10 reserve in a airforce pack tray

That had to have been a pissed off rigger.

[Horned Toad]

One of the not so great joys of the internet, that was not me that used the knife for a rappel anchor that was a very good friend of mine, who is also (in)famous for jumping off the Savanna River bridge witha T10 reserve in a airforce pack tray

That had to have been a pissed off rigger. [/quote]


was all surplus gear :D

[EvilCouch]

was all surplus gear :D

Was it declared expendable before or after it was full of water?

[Ndog275]

Ranger HornedToad... I get the feeling you have no problem handling yourself. Anyone who wields a Strider large enough for a rappel anchor must be a true TmuthafuckinRex.

One of the not so great joys of the internet, that was not me that used the knife for a rappel anchor that was a very good friend of mine, who is also (in)famous for jumping off the Savanna River bridge witha T10 reserve in a airforce pack tray

Always wondered if that story was true, sort of like the 2/75 shoot out on Hilltop in Tacoma. Heard after the jump he got a ticket for trespass or swimming in shipping channel or something like that

[Horned Toad]

Ranger HornedToad... I get the feeling you have no problem handling yourself. Anyone who wields a Strider large enough for a rappel anchor must be a true TmuthafuckinRex.

One of the not so great joys of the internet, that was not me that used the knife for a rappel anchor that was a very good friend of mine, who is also (in)famous for jumping off the Savanna River bridge witha T10 reserve in a airforce pack tray

Always wondered if that story was true, sort of like the 2/75 shoot out on Hilltop in Tacoma. Heard after the jump he got a ticket for trespass or swimming in shipping channel or something like that

true story, got a ticket for public endangerment and swimming in the savanna river, I saw his copies of the newspaper article

was also caught on film by some show that was being filmed in savanna at the time

[rgrpuck]

One of the not so great joys of the internet, that was not me that used the knife for a rappel anchor that was a very good friend of mine, who is also (in)famous for jumping off the Savanna River bridge witha T10 reserve in a airforce pack tray

Always wondered if that story was true, sort of like the 2/75 shoot out on Hilltop in Tacoma. Heard after the jump he got a ticket for trespass or swimming in shipping channel or something like that

true story, got a ticket for public endangerment and swimming in the savanna river, I saw his copies of the newspaper article

was also caught on film by some show that was being filmed in savanna at the time

AHhhh the creator and Owner of the one and only "O"sov.

[Everett Ruess]

Ranger HornedToad... I get the feeling you have no problem handling yourself. Anyone who wields a Strider large enough for a rappel anchor must be a true TmuthafuckinRex.

One of the not so great joys of the internet, that was not me that used the knife for a rappel anchor that was a very good friend of mine, who is also (in)famous for jumping off the Savanna River bridge witha T10 reserve in a airforce pack tray

That had to have been a pissed off rigger.

I remember that! I think I had left BN by then but I remember hearing about it from my buddies.

And from a rigger perspective - wet parachute no problem. They just have to dry (think water jumps).

[Horned Toad]

AHhhh the creator and Owner of the one and only "O"sov.

he is on at least the "D" model right now

:D :D :D

[RBL_M1A2Tanker]

Another combat concern is what changes when you put on a combat boots, a 30 lb. protective vest, a 7 lb. helmet, 3+ liters of water, 210+ rounds of ammo, a 5 lb. protective (gas) mask hanging off one side, and at least a small rucksack with more ammo and your food for the day (quite possibly much, much more...especially if you get stuck with the radio). Oh, and a 5-20 pound weapon (firearm for civvies) that you may not get to fire if Haji Raghead jumps you from behind some form of concealment. (Did I get this about right, Rangers?)

A last concern is the barroom brawl scenario...many servicemembers like to drink, and sometimes they get bored of their military installations and like to go outside, and sometimes, at the places they visit, there are shithead angry drunks who don't like service members...get the idea?

To summarize: master of this art vs. master of that art is not our primary concern. Training soldiers how to fight is.

That brings up a question.

I've had this discussion with my bro, and with some others, and while Combatives as it is I think is an excellent tool, there is the point that it does have some weaknesses.

I've only been through the Level I course, and I only know what was mentioned to us that in Level II you learn more standup positions with strikes and the like, and Level III you learn more of the same plus how to fight with a weapon (stickfighting, using a knife and a rifle).

But shouldn't we also include training in full battle rattle? And learn how to use what we have on us as weapons if possible? It would make the training more realistic than fighting in just BDUs....or ACUs now?...and shoes/boots only. A hard headbutt with a kevlar to the head for example would probably buy you some time in a combat situation where they got the drop on you to draw up another weapon, achieve a dominant position, or break free and get clear. Or would it?

I just don't know how you could train that way in a training environment that is safe enough yet closer to potential realistic combat situations.

Lemme know if I'm off base in my thinking in any way.

[EvilCouch]

Two big reasons why the Combatives courses don't have people fully kit up is because that means they'd have to maintain the equipment for everyone, to ensure everyone is taught the same and because of safety issues.

Being kitted up makes it harder to tap, harder to realize that someone's tapping, easier to overheat and dehydrate, as well as possible cuts caused by hard-edged equipment.

Being kitted up and doing Combatives seems like a good idea until you're doing a risk assessment matrix for day-long training.

For an hour of hip pocket training here and there, it works fine, though. But, that's not the Combatives school's responsibility to conduct.

[Mitch]

blah, blah blah

But if you want some informed info, Matt Larsen has an article in Ultimate Grappling (August 06) "Modern Army Combatives: MMA Translates to Combat"

website does not include above article that I know of:


http://www.moderncombatives.org/pages/1/index.htm

some of yall might want to get edumoncated before opening your cock holsters

Just a technique maybe not the right technique but a technique none the less.

[RBL_M1A2Tanker]

Those are some good points. I didn't consider those angles, so I'll knock'em out after this post. Most of the schools I've been to (which admittedly are not very many) usually required us to bring our own unit supplied gear, but that doesn't change the point in the least. Have to maintain a standard of training after all.

After reading Borebrushes reply, the thought occured to me that maybe what could be done is to make use of local (if there are any) paintball ranges for training. Just have a battalion rent it out for a day for example. Have all your gear, soft cap for cover (I seriously doubt a kevlar would allow a paintball mask to fit properly) and maybe some gloves. The range provides the rifles and masks. That way you're not only training in various missions (movement to contact, enilade, ambush, etc), but you can also include close quarters situations (building clearing for example) where you might get into a hand-to-hand fight. Can even specifically have several such simulations just to work on training in gear, with 'live' ammo.

The biggest pitfall I see with that idea is that, well, troops are rough with gear. Some places may be for it, others not so much due to insurance, cost of replacing damaged guns, tanks and masks, and having to shut down for the day. It would just depend on the different owners of the ranges and what is worked out.

Think that's off, or has some hidden problems involved or should this be removed altogether?

[RBL_M1A2Tanker]

After reading Borebrushes reply, the thought occured to me that maybe what could be done is to make use of local (if there are any) paintball ranges for training. Just have a battalion rent it out for a day for example. Have all your gear, soft cap for cover (I seriously doubt a kevlar would allow a paintball mask to fit properly) and maybe some gloves. The range provides the rifles and masks. That way you're not only training in various missions (movement to contact, enilade, ambush, etc), but you can also include close quarters situations (building clearing for example) where you might get into a hand-to-hand fight. Can even specifically have several such simulations just to work on training in gear, with 'live' ammo.

you are missing one thing... Lotsa beer. Why go outside, when practically everybase has a MOUT facility, and access to simunitions, or MILES atleast.

Well, if it's considered an 'off' day of sorts....BYOB. Camelbacks work great for that.

I've never seen any simunitions other than hoffmans used as 120mm simulator noise makers so I don't know much about that. I've never been through MOUNT either so I'm more or less blank on that. As for MILES...hell, that crap tries to kill you with it's own version of a choke hold. With paintball you at least see the results; you don't with MILES. You just know that someone is 'hit.' With paintball, you can have medics train with wounds (so you don't need those stupid little cards we used in NTC) you can see how tight your group is against a moving target, etc. I also don't like MILES because it sometimes malfunctions, or can be spoofed. Plus, if your opfor just turns it off...they never 'die.' Getting hit with a paintball, you notice instantly.

Reason why I was thinking going outside was because then you don't have to force a service branch to purchase and maintain the extra equipment that's used mostly for training and take up space in your supply/orderly room. It's one less hassle and (at least at first glance) seems to be more cost effective. Plus some ranges have a lot of variation to pick from in a small area that can be rather challenging for everyone involved.

Basically I'm just looking to try to create as realistic an environment as possible. Granted, it doesn't do jack for the heavy equipment folks (unless they make a 155mm arty paintball round...which would SUCK to get hit with), but considering we have many more ops in urban areas and other close quarters areas, it would be more useful. In my opinion.