Bars and Crime

Cat · Post by **Cat** » April 5th, 2004, 2:48 pm

I have a group project in one of my classes that involves studying bars and crime.

Our thesis is that bars produce crime or that bars create an atmosphere that is conducive to crime.

Since there are some LEOs on here I thought I could get some feedback on my findings. Also some feedback from those who go to bars themselves.

Bars and Crime
Patrons likely to carry cash
Patrons likely to have consumed alcohol making them more vulnerable
Items of value often become visible in bars
Less willing to resist a crime
Alcohol weakens internal controls
People in bars are often in areas where they don't reside and thus are anonymous
Large number of people drawn to bars
Motivated offenders drawn to bars

Cat · Post by **Cat** » April 5th, 2004, 2:53 pm

Also we have found after researching neighborhoods or blocks that have bars have higher crime rates in these crimes: murder, rape, robbery, assault, burglary, grand theft, auto theft, violent crimes, property crimes, and (other) index crimes.

Steadfast · Post by **Steadfast** » April 5th, 2004, 3:15 pm

So after cigarettes are banned entirely, Bars may be next? I bet your class can't come up with more things to the positive side of bars. Sounds like another Liberal pointing out what they don't like. Sounds like that liberal bitch at AirborneRanger we had. Watch it Cat it is another liberal attack on your civil rights. I remember reading a book in college I think it was by Barry Schwartz. All about the .25 paper cups you would be charged just for getting a drink of water circa 1971. I think it even touched on Eldridge Cleaver and the Black Panthers. I am sure you could come up with 30 plus reasons if you wanted to for having Bars. Your topic is not fair Cat. Your topic assignment is lop-sided. Your topic is liberal one-sided.

Looon · Post by **Looon** » April 5th, 2004, 3:22 pm

Cat wrote:Also we have found after researching neighborhoods or blocks that have bars have higher crime rates in these crimes: murder, rape, robbery, assault, burglary, grand theft, auto theft, violent crimes, property crimes, and (other) index crimes.

Well lets look at the good things bars promote.

Bars are a great place to meet women, then take them to their house and fuck the shit out of them.

Great place for intelligent conversation with your buds or Ranger Buds.

ETC, ETC, ETC......................Donlt blame the bars, blame the idiot that acts like a bigger idiot when he drinks in a bar. The idiot can get drunk at home also. Do you want to close down homesteads because people drink firewater in them. I didn't think so.

Looon · Post by **Looon** » April 5th, 2004, 3:25 pm

<<<<That is an example of what you can see in some bars.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » April 5th, 2004, 3:29 pm

Steadfast wrote:So after cigarettes are banned entirely, Bars may be next? I bet your class can't come up with more things to the positive side of bars. Sounds like another Liberal pointing out what they don't like. Sounds like that liberal bitch at AirborneRanger we had. Watch it Cat it is another liberal attack on your civil rights. I remember reading a book in college I think it was by Barry Schwartz. All about the .25 paper cups you would be charged just for getting a drink of water circa 1971. I think it even touched on Eldridge Cleaver and the Black Panthers. I am sure you could come up with 30 plus reasons if you wanted to for having Bars. Your topic is not fair Cat. Your topic assignment is lop-sided. Your topic is liberal one-sided.

Well Rgr SF I disagree. There is no agenda here on the part of my Professor or my group members. All the group members work/intern in criminal justice professions (SBI CCBI etc) there is not a liberal in the bunch. My Professor's assigment is just to look at bars and crime. We decided our thesis. We choose the approach based on crime rates that are higher in those areas. We looked at the data first and then decided to try and find out what makes these areas more prone to crime.

Higher crime rates is not an accident - we are trying in a neutral way to find out why. The positive side to bars is not appropriate for my area of study or the class. We study crime, we are not looking at the social aspects that make bars enjoyable. Hell if we did that, we wouldn't need to do research. Believe me banning bars is not a college students agenda :D

Cat · Post by **Cat** » April 5th, 2004, 3:32 pm

RGR Luna wrote:
Cat wrote:Also we have found after researching neighborhoods or blocks that have bars have higher crime rates in these crimes: murder, rape, robbery, assault, burglary, grand theft, auto theft, violent crimes, property crimes, and (other) index crimes.
Well lets look at the good things bars promote.

Bars are a great place to meet women, then take them to their house and fuck the shit out of them.

Great place for intelligent conversation with your buds or Ranger Buds.

ETC, ETC, ETC......................Donlt blame the bars, blame the idiot that acts like a bigger idiot when he drinks in a bar. The idiot can get drunk at home also. Do you want to close down homesteads because people drink firewater in them. I didn't think so.

We are not blaming bars here. We are looking at the circumstance under which bars operate. Areas where bars are found have a higher crime rate than other areas. We are trying to find out why this occurs.

I don't want to close down anything.

Looon · Post by **Looon** » April 5th, 2004, 3:39 pm

If you look at your study, as you posted it, only the negative stuff was mentioned.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » April 5th, 2004, 3:43 pm

Also as I have said, I study crime and on this topic we are studying why crime rates are higher or why crime is coalescing in these areas. I am not interested in studying what makes bars good places to go to. This is a Community and Crime class not a Social welfare/wellbeing class. Sheesh.

Looon · Post by **Looon** » April 5th, 2004, 3:47 pm

Like Ranger Steadfast said, be carefull, that is a study from a liberal point of view.

Steadfast · Post by **Steadfast** » April 5th, 2004, 3:52 pm

Maybe where you are looking at bars is a negative. I bet if your group checks further you will find a certain age group where most of the problems happen, not all but some. Take NYC. We got good bars and not so good bars. Sports bars are big here and we have many responsible people visiting them. Here in NYC if you get stopped and you are DUI you may lose your vehicle (too bad if you are still paying for your loan). Another Famous Bar is Mickey Mantles in Central Park. We have crime in Central Park that certainly is not connected to Mickey's. We have many Bars here on Staten Island. There are some where there be rowdy teens fighting. It turned out the bar was hurting for money and serving underage drinkers This bar lost it liquor license and is now part of a pizzeria, restaurant catering hall. Several of my friends that I walk dogs with have their husbands doing professional jobs, lawyers, engineers, etc. They visit the local restaurant/ bar establishments and I never hear of anything bad. In my neighborhood, when something is bad we hear about it. I bet that there are more drinkers in parks across the country and underage at that than are in bars. High age entry in bars create this. So how many of your people will gladly be going into ghettos and making a onsite check on what you have reported. Prolly none. It is easier to sit back and correlate infor from blotter sheets/law enforcement computers than doing foot work.

Steadfast · Post by **Steadfast** » April 5th, 2004, 3:55 pm

Cat, this lame liberal bullshit has got to stop!

Cat · Post by **Cat** » April 5th, 2004, 3:58 pm

RGR Luna wrote:Like Ranger Steadfast said, be carefull, that is a study from a liberal point of view.

Crime or crime control is not now nor ever been a liberal area of thinking or area of study.

These areas have a SIGNIFICANT increases in crime rates. This is not arbitrary. We base our decisions on data that is neither liberal nor conservative, its just numbers. We pull the numbers and then work back to find explanations.

If we had an agenda we would state a thesis then try to find data that matched our assumptions.

If someone has a point of mine to refute or corrobrate or even add I would like to hear it. I do not wish to argue my premise or justify my area of study any longer. I can't study everything. I study crime.

Looon · Post by **Looon** » April 5th, 2004, 4:02 pm

The liberal point of view wants to blame some sort of establishment or organization for someone's inadequicies or wrong doing, instead of blaming the individual. That is what your first post implies, whether you meant it or not.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » April 5th, 2004, 4:02 pm

Steadfast wrote:So how many of your people will gladly be going into ghettos and making a onsite check on what you have reported. Prolly none. It is easier to sit back and correlate infor from blotter sheets/law enforcement computers than doing foot work.

Actually that type of study or observation is quite common in the field of criminology where researchers often spend years in relocation living in areas that they are studying ie ghettos, public housing, gang infested areas.