4187 Problems....

bamf · Post by **bamf** » April 12th, 2006, 8:05 pm

I introduced myself not too long ago and I mentioned how I had submitted a 4187 for assignment to the 75th Ranger Regiment ( http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=22031 ). Not too long after that I spoke with the SCSM because he wanted to know my reasons for requesting out of the unit and also to let me know that because I am a part of a 'lifecycle' unit that I should be prepared to be denied by the RCO.

I still haven't heard the decision on the 4187, but I did today get a memo from the RCO that (in so many words), NO ONE is leaving the regiment until the end of the lifecycle, early 2008. It goes as far as to say that if we wish to go to Ranger School/RSLC that we will first have to sign a waiver stating that upon coming back to the unit we will not seek assigment out of the unit, or we will receive an Article 92 for dereliction of duty.

Even worse, if we wish to even attend a SMU brieifng of any kind (SFAS, Delta Selection, etc...) we must first inform our chain of command to make its way up to the RCO/RCSM for approval. Punishment for not informaing our chain of command to simply ATTEND a briefing? Article 90 for failure to obey an order from a superior commissioned officer.

I'm thinking I might be shit out of luck on this one which doesn't suprise me, but I find it hard to believe that before they'll send anyone to Ranger School they have to sign a piece of paper saying they will not leave the unit when they come back (or even attempt to).

Does anyone have any experiences with this type of situation? I really would appreciate any good input from the Rangers or Veterans.

Thanks,

Mike

Silverback · Post by **Silverback** » April 12th, 2006, 8:49 pm

BAMF,
Not sure what level you are working at within your Brigade. The lifecycle thing does exist and since it is new I can imagine there is some pain associated with executing the intent. With the lifecycle plan there is a window for professional schooling ans such.

The lifecycle for a Brigade was briefed as 3-years and you'll be suprised at how quickly that time passes. I suggest you use the time you are in this unit to mature as a soldier and possibly as a leader and then apply when the time is right. In wouldn't get hung up on trying to get around the system because I am sure that will cause considerable pain!

Bugsy · Post by **Bugsy** » April 12th, 2006, 10:30 pm

I don't know what the present military situation is for lifecycle or even its term, but when I was in I met a 11B while in germany his name sounded like brrrrlannngah. I'm certian Wellfed and Inteltoad remember him. He was part of a unit called COHORT which was sanctioned by the DOD to stick together from basic until you either got out or did at a minimum of 3 years with the same soldiers you came into the Army with.

Well the above stated soldier asked me how to get into the Rangers while we were in Germany and I told him.... if you ever get to Benning I'll do my best to get you a chance at RIP (we had a competition and I knew he was a squared away soldier and at first glance had what I considered what it took to make it) this was during MOUT Training.
A year later he showed up at Regiment and the CQ told me he was at the front desk and asked if I was there.

Long story short, he somehow got an Airborne slot before his 3 year commitment was up, I talked to my NCOIC and my MSG asked me if he was worth the effort (I indicated that I thought he was Ranger material) and on my input he pulled some strings and low and behold he got a shot at RIP, he failed the road march on the first try but was allowed to go for it again......(with blisters the size of a silver dollar on his heals) on his second attempt he made it......and from that moment on I learned that if you want a Ranger assignment that bad you'll bitch moan gripe and complain until somebody in authority releases you from your current assignment to attempt to become a Airborne Ranger. He was a cocky motherfucker and you could tell from our competition at the end of MOUT that he was at the very least a competitor and squared away soldier. His squad came in second place during the competition. We came in first btw.

He was a small fucker but he had the heart of a lion and he never accepted NO for an answer, he later told me he was told no you can't leave countless times but he continued to harass his chain of command until somebody allowed him to leave his unit.

Now I don't know what its like in your present circumstances but I do know this much. NEVER ACCEPT NO FOR AN ANSWER AND IF YOU REALLY WANT TO BECOME A RANGER YOU WILL CONTINUE TO DO WHATS NECESSARY TO COMPELTE YOUR OBJECTIVE.

GOOD LUCK

The Holmchicken · Post by **The Holmchicken** » April 13th, 2006, 1:44 pm

If you don't minds burning a few bridges, you can backdoor people. The only other MACOM in the Army that has more pull than USASOC is USAREC. If you really want Regiment, get with the Ranger recruiting team and see what they can do. Bug the crap out of them. As for the SMU brief, I've never heard of anyone getting UCMJ for an Army briefing, but it sounds like Regular Army kneejerk bullshit. Fine, you want SF or some other brief, let them know you're going and go. Didn't say you couldn't go, just had to inform. Hell, get SF recruiting on the phone and tell them you want to go to selection. They'll be more than happy to send a letter that says "Johnny is interested in SF and wants to go to selection. If we let him go, Suck It! because he's going bitches!" I did my whole recruitment over the phone and the only time I saw a recruiter was to get orders. And yes, three years flies. So after all is said and done and nothing works, wait three years.

Goog · Post by **Goog** » April 13th, 2006, 4:51 pm

The Holmchicken wrote:If you don't minds burning a few bridges, you can backdoor people. The only other MACOM in the Army that has more pull than USASOC is USAREC. If you really want Regiment, get with the Ranger recruiting team and see what they can do. Bug the crap out of them. As for the SMU brief, I've never heard of anyone getting UCMJ for an Army briefing, but it sounds like Regular Army kneejerk bullshit. Fine, you want SF or some other brief, let them know you're going and go. Didn't say you couldn't go, just had to inform. Hell, get SF recruiting on the phone and tell them you want to go to selection. They'll be more than happy to send a letter that says "Johnny is interested in SF and wants to go to selection. If we let him go, Suck It! because he's going bitches!" I did my whole recruitment over the phone and the only time I saw a recruiter was to get orders. And yes, three years flies. So after all is said and done and nothing works, wait three years.

Good advice.

Sounds like strong-arming to me. Your cmd should support you trying to better yourself.

KW Driver · Post by **KW Driver** » April 13th, 2006, 7:10 pm

and I happen to know your RSM...

bamf · Post by **bamf** » April 14th, 2006, 9:20 am

Appreciate all the input. I got my 4187 back yesterday and as expected it was denied by the RCO for the reason of being in a lifecycle unit and a shortage of 11Bs in the squadron. Not sure what options are left right now, but I will fax my packet (with the denied 4187) to the 75th LNO at HRC. If that fails, I'll just keep putting paperwork through until someone gets tired of signing and wants to see me face to face.

Thanks again Rangers and Veterans,

Mike