ACOG

The Holmchicken · Post by **The Holmchicken** » November 26th, 2006, 2:55 pm

I like using my pen to make the correct diameter holes in my target, that way, no matter what kind of sight/optic I use, I always get expert.

Horned Toad · Post by **Horned Toad** » November 26th, 2006, 6:46 pm

Desert Sloth wrote:
Horned Toad wrote: at 15 yards or less why are you not just referencing the front sight, I donâ€™t know how many rounds I put into rows and rows of little circles just using the front sight, I think its called muscle memory
You can't reference the front site with the TA 11 or TA 31 there highspeed.

This is no difference, except you ain't using the front site post.....and the muscle memory is the whole point Billy Bob......

Desert Sloth wrote:It is all about repetitive training at these distances so you INSTINCTIVELY know where to place you chevron each time.

you know if I can refrence just the front sight on a Car 15 with an Aimpoint 3000 mounted on the carrying handle, I would think you could see over an ACOG on a flat top :D, maybe that was back when things were hard

Horned Toad · Post by **Horned Toad** » November 26th, 2006, 6:47 pm

The Holmchicken wrote:I like using my pen to make the correct diameter holes in my target, that way, no matter what kind of sight/optic I use, I always get expert.

I find its pretty hard to find a .40 pen that makes nice round holes in the paper

BadMuther · Post by **BadMuther** » November 27th, 2006, 7:46 am

Desert Sloth wrote:
BadMuther wrote: I'm a 1% but it's gotten a lot better with practice. I can blast away in training at cqb distances with no problems, but I don't have the comfort level with it at short range to take it into harms way.

At really close distances, it is really how much you shoot and how confident you are. You have to figure out what the overall shift in point of aim vs. point of impact at different distances (under 15 yds).

Say for instance, in Hostage Rescue operations, you are going to press the threat until you make an almost contact shot with him. As you flood into the room and took your angle of attack, I always knew, with etreme confidence, that if I place the chevron of my TA-11 at the hairline of the threat, my point of impact would always be between the eyes or the very top portion of the bridge of the nose, depending if I was at 3 yds or 7 yds.

It is all about repetitive training at these distances so you INSTINCTIVELY know where to place you chevron each time.

The TA-11s and TA-31s sit so high on the weapon that you will almost always have a 2.5 in to 4 in difference at close ranges.

Nothing to do with that Sean. It has to do with that extra whatever of a second it takes to locate your target at close range through magnification compared to without. And you might not have that extra whatever amount of time, so for cqb stuff I'll just take no magnification.

You Arizona boys kind have it made. If it was me, I'd keep a TA-31f on my gun until I had to kick doors, then I'd throw a no-mag dot on.

BadMuther · Post by **BadMuther** » November 27th, 2006, 9:55 am

Yep, the older 6.5 orange dot. I love the thing. I was out shooting with a buddy (ex-hooah) and he had a problem locating the dot in conditions you describe. I picked the gun up and could see it fine. So I guess I'm lucky in that regard.

Sean, you guys are zeroing for 15m? I understand that's the new thing. I don't quite see the point myself. You can zero at 25 (or even 50 yards, my preferred) and hit where you want at 15 and in.

I do understand the height over bore concerns for close distances, my feelings though are what happens when you have to use that 15m zeroed weapon at 50, 75, 150, or 200 yds? Maybe not a common occurence for door kicking, but there is that possibility. I'd be kickin myself if I was trying to hit someone aways out with my 15m zeroed sight.

This was discussed on socnet awhile back....http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?t=63563

The Holmchicken · November 27th, 2006, 10:43 am

Horned Toad wrote:
The Holmchicken wrote:I like using my pen to make the correct diameter holes in my target, that way, no matter what kind of sight/optic I use, I always get expert.
I find its pretty hard to find a .40 pen that makes nice round holes in the paper

I don't know man, the dollar store has got a pretty decent selection!

BadMuther · Post by **BadMuther** » November 27th, 2006, 11:48 am

I thought BP couldn't use guns, as it might offend the illegals....

I hear ya brother. You know as well as I that in Batt and police work (can I call BP that????

) you need to be prepared for any eventuality. While most LE shootings occur under 15 meters, not all do, and you need to be prepared for that eventuality. IMHO, 15m zero don't cut it. Like I said, most everything I have (like you) is zeroed for 50 yds, and I have no probs hitting where I need to at 15 and under.

I think we have beaten the argument to death, so we can move on to straight insults......

BadMuther · Post by **BadMuther** » November 27th, 2006, 1:25 pm

Cool, I just sent your Mom back!

Silverback · Post by **Silverback** » November 27th, 2006, 4:06 pm

BadMuther wrote:Cool, I just sent your Mom back!

Why you gotta' be like that? Everyone knews that DS's Mother isn't a Lesbian.

BadMuther · Post by **BadMuther** » November 27th, 2006, 4:36 pm

Silverback wrote:
BadMuther wrote:Cool, I just sent your Mom back!
Why you gotta' be like that? Everyone knews that DS's Mother isn't a Lesbian.

What's the matter Top? The pfc under your desk not doing a good enough rim job for ya? Have him put on some Mascara and tights like I used to make you do. That'll help.