Georgian troops battle for separatist capital

[Looon]

dont we have 2,000 troops in Georgia

The report I saw said that there were only 100 or so advisers from the U.S.

[Chiron]

Peters & our Marine friend got it wrong. Why shouldn't a population of Russians who wish to be ruled by their own nation be part of that nation? Ossetia should not be part of Georgia.

The expansion of NATO far beyond it's legitimate regions and mission creep and our legitimatizing of historic Russian fears will only make the climate in this region far worse than it already is. For us, this is about the oil pipeline, nothing else & we'll get our ass handed to us by taking the wrong side. Russia has the recources and the oil we need, we should be dealing with Russia for oil, not Georgia.

As an aside:
For those a little behind in their reading, the cold war & the communism thing ended almost two decades ago - this is a different Russia and we ignore & 'dis' it at our peril. We stand to gain a lot more by working to become an ally of Russia, rather than trying to isolate 1/6th of the worlds surface!

Wise words.

Also when georgia attacked they killed over 1500 civilians at the get go!

Russia also has over 30,000 civilians on the run moving north to get away from the war. War it is and if we chose the wrong side it could be seriously damaging to our credibility.

On a personal note there are many Georgians living and working in Greece. Well they are a bigger criminal element than the Albanians.

Russia: 6000 Tanks, 1.1 Million Army, 1700 combat aircraft and the Black Sea fleet!

Georgia: 300 Tanks, 12 combat aircraft, 37,000 Army and a fleet not worth mention.

If it's war then without Europe and NATO Georgia will lose. If we stop Russia then the oil AND natural gas will stop flowing and the crude will double in price.

Who is right in this I don't care. The end result will effect my daily budget and therefore I already chose to be with Russia in the hope that life will cost less to live.

[Chiron]

Bush says violence in Georgia is unacceptable

BEIJING - President Bush sharply criticized Moscow's harsh military crackdown in the former Soviet republic of Georgia, saying Monday that the violence is unacceptable and Russia's response is disproportionate.

The United States is waging an all-out campaign to press Russia to halt its retaliation against Georgia for trying to take control of the breakaway province of South Ossetia.

"I've expressed my grave concern about the disproportionate response of Russia and that we strongly condemn the bombing outside of South Ossetia," Bush said in an interview with NBC.


Full story

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"I've expressed my grave concern about the disproportionate response of Russia and that we strongly condemn the bombing outside of South Ossetia,"

My only problem with this is that if another country invaded mine, I would not leave it to a proportionate response but rather erase them from the face of the earth. But that’s me….

[Chiron]

On the NATO expansion issue I have some apprehensions that many also have. Some say that the target of NATO is the Oil! After Ossetia come Groznyy and Chechnya then the Oil of the Caspian Sea.

I’m not a Strategist but it looks plain to me that Russia will not risk losing an inch of land. Tough rhetoric brings violent action in some cases especially when you’re defending your country as the Russians are. The divide and conquer may not work against the Russians in this regard.

I’m not optimistic in that this move may be the straw that broke the camels back in that we will be thrown into another “cold warâ€

[Rock Island Ranger]

Peters & our Marine friend got it wrong. Why shouldn't a population of Russians who wish to be ruled by their own nation be part of that nation? Ossetia should not be part of Georgia.

The expansion of NATO far beyond it's legitimate regions and mission creep and our legitimatizing of historic Russian fears will only make the climate in this region far worse than it already is. For us, this is about the oil pipeline, nothing else & we'll get our ass handed to us by taking the wrong side. Russia has the recources and the oil we need, we should be dealing with Russia for oil, not Georgia.

As an aside:
For those a little behind in their reading, the cold war & the communism thing ended almost two decades ago - this is a different Russia and we ignore & 'dis' it at our peril. We stand to gain a lot more by working to become an ally of Russia, rather than trying to isolate 1/6th of the worlds surface!

Sounds nice in theory but Russia doesnt HAVE allies. They have subjects of their condescending scorn. They have not been our friend since before WWII and just because they tore the wall down means NOTHING. Putin will push his stack of money as hard as he can and eventually the event I lived for, trained for, and yea, probably wanted will happen. A showdown with them. Unfortunate...it will my sons obligation to carry it on.

They will leverage anything and everything the can to one up the US. Anyone who thinks Russia can be trusted in anything is daft.

[K.Ingraham]

Osettia area study:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/count ... 797729.stm

Seems some Americans can't get past the cold war rubric.
We have too much to lose by playing the old "we can't trust them' excuse, this always disguises ignorance.
Putin & his "cold war rheric"? or is it reaction to short sighted & ignorant foreign policies of two American administrations? Chicken or egg? You got my POV already.

We've been fighting the same enemies in central Asia & the Caucasis, too bad we seem to want to make it a three way fight.
We went to war with one country over a nuclear program that didn't exist and are trying to instigate a war with another over a nuclear program that may, or may not, produce a nuclear weapon in the next decade while we shit on the one power that CAN deliver an actual & total nuclear strike right now?
Yeah guys, "bring it on" was stupid when George II said it on 2003, it's even dumber in this context.
Allies? No such things, nations align with nations with common interests, we have far more common interests with Russia than with GA or many other erstwhile friendly nations. China should be shitting bricks over the thought of the US & Russia developing & defending Siberia, instead of the two Eurasian powers working together against us, as we've pushed to happen & is happening.

[coldsteal2]

I have been getting emails from a girl in T'blisi they
are moving into the City right now, she is watching
MIG's flying over her home at treetop level, she is
pretty freaked out, she said the summer camps
were bombed last night which is where they usualy
go in case of fighting. She is sure they are going
to take the city of T'Blisi and take the government.
Pretty chilling talking to a freind going through
this in another country, just a couple of kids, no parents.
All you can do is advise her to find a safe place.
Imagine the fear of having Russians take over your
your city, shes just a kid, and originaly from the US

I stoped getting emails at 11:AM hope she is just
hiding out

Yea she said they bombed Gori and took it last night

Here is a photo of Maka and her sister

"Those Georgian Girls make me sing and shout!"

[RTO]

Have we seen the first shots fired of the Third World War?

[Strykerguy56]

It's funny to think that during MOBC they told us "You guys will never see a Russian tank or BMP in a combat setting for as long as you lead troops. Toyota trucks are the targets you'll get." Hmm, might not be 100% true anymore. Def. a huge event to monitor

[K.Ingraham]

dont we have 2,000 troops in Georgia

The report I saw said that there were only 100 or so advisers from the U.S.

From an AP article published Monday afternoon, 11 Aug:
"Pentagon officials said Monday that U.S. military was assessing the fighting every day to determine whether less than 100 U.S. trainers should be pulled out of the country.
There had been about 130 trainers, including a few dozen civilian contractors, but the civilians had been scheduled to rotate out of the country and did so over the weekend, Whitman said. The remaining uniformed trainers were moved the weekend to what officials believe is a safer location, he said. Whitman is unsure if the civilian contractors are included in the 170 civilians the State Department evacuated already."

[K.Ingraham]

nations align with nations with common interests,

I agree, and Russia has aligned themselves with N. Vietnam, N. Korea, Iran, Iraq under Hussein, Cuba, Syria, Just about everyone we consider dangerous or have fought wars against. Seems to me their interests are to see us fall..

Just a reminder: The Cold War is over, has been for almost two decades.
Russia is not aligned to DRV, Cuba or Syria. (They are not unfriendly with the above, which is something entirely different) We too were allied with Saddam right up to August 1990. I'd include N.Korea in the above list since they haven't been of much use to the NKs since 1991, but I think the Russians would be stupid not to maintain friendly relations with buffer states that keep us further away.

So they target ABM sites? Good for them, we're placing them in east europe in order to negate Russia's one element of military power which they can project or threaten us with. What would we do if they'd placed ABM sites in Cuba, Mexico and tried to push Nova Scotia, Quebec & British Columbia into the Warsaw Pact? (yes I know, those last three are Canadian provinces but geographicaly work for this metaphor) Tit for tat, that's how it works once you start. We gained nothing by starting & have largely blown the opportunities the West in Russia in the '90s.