This is the initial report to Congress on the progress being made in Iraq. This is the basic document. It needs to be read and considered prior to the media providing a negative spin. I added the Washington Post's first article to provide perspective.
Measuring Stability and Security in Iraq
June 2007
Report to Congress
In accordance with the
Department of Defense Appropriations Act 2007
(Section 9010, Public Law 109-289)
U.S. Department of Defense
http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pdfs/90 ... 070608.pdf
Washington Post's first article: (first one that I noted):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02357.html
Measuring Stability and Security in Iraq
Moderator: Site Admin
Measuring Stability and Security in Iraq
Ranger Class 13-71
Advisor, VN 66-68 69-70
42d Vn Ranger Battalion 1969-1970
Trainer, El Salvador 86-87
Advisor, Saudi Arabian National Guard 91, 93-94
75th RRA Life Member #867
Advisor, VN 66-68 69-70
42d Vn Ranger Battalion 1969-1970
Trainer, El Salvador 86-87
Advisor, Saudi Arabian National Guard 91, 93-94
75th RRA Life Member #867
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/ ... index.html
No Civil War? Who the heck are they kidding?....Rawanda comes to mind, and so does every other african civil war when i read this article. This is only the beginning, the humanitarian situation is going to spiral out of control over night.
This conflict i believe had good intentions behind it....but the utter incompetence of it's management are criminal...incompetence in Washington, not the military. However, Generals need to answer for they're incompetence as well, they're duty is to win wars, not serve, that is the duty of any other solider.
I don't understand how a general can blindly follow the orders of the president or his cabinet....how is some air national guard veteran more privy to counter-insurgency operations on a national level? This Iraq expedition should really have this country think about how much power a president can have over the military.
Am i alone in this? Am i the only one who thinks the military should dictate the game from beginning to end? And if they say 'well sir, we're gona bomb the shit out of em...all of em" It might make them think long and hard if it's worth going, or atleast come up with a plan for complete victory.
No Civil War? Who the heck are they kidding?....Rawanda comes to mind, and so does every other african civil war when i read this article. This is only the beginning, the humanitarian situation is going to spiral out of control over night.
This conflict i believe had good intentions behind it....but the utter incompetence of it's management are criminal...incompetence in Washington, not the military. However, Generals need to answer for they're incompetence as well, they're duty is to win wars, not serve, that is the duty of any other solider.
I don't understand how a general can blindly follow the orders of the president or his cabinet....how is some air national guard veteran more privy to counter-insurgency operations on a national level? This Iraq expedition should really have this country think about how much power a president can have over the military.
Am i alone in this? Am i the only one who thinks the military should dictate the game from beginning to end? And if they say 'well sir, we're gona bomb the shit out of em...all of em" It might make them think long and hard if it's worth going, or atleast come up with a plan for complete victory.
Banned - Admin Concensus
20 JUN 2007
20 JUN 2007
How the fuck can you blame an insurgency on the generals? Fundamentalism + Islam = Insurgency. No way around it, and since you've been in country, you should know how easy it is to be an insurgent...provided you have half a fuckin' bundle of wits about you.AcoG275 wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/ ... index.html
No Civil War? Who the heck are they kidding?....Rawanda comes to mind, and so does every other african civil war when i read this article. This is only the beginning, the humanitarian situation is going to spiral out of control over night.
This conflict i believe had good intentions behind it....but the utter incompetence of it's management are criminal...incompetence in Washington, not the military. However, Generals need to answer for they're incompetence as well, they're duty is to win wars, not serve, that is the duty of any other solider.
I don't understand how a general can blindly follow the orders of the president or his cabinet....how is some air national guard veteran more privy to counter-insurgency operations on a national level? This Iraq expedition should really have this country think about how much power a president can have over the military.
Am i alone in this? Am i the only one who thinks the military should dictate the game from beginning to end? And if they say 'well sir, we're gona bomb the shit out of em...all of em" It might make them think long and hard if it's worth going, or atleast come up with a plan for complete victory.
Hearts and Minds will only appease the good jingly fuckers over here, it'll do NOTHING for the guys that already want to kill us. It's stupid beyond belief to think that it would.
The actual WAR aspect of this place was over long ago. The generals won the war pretty fucking easily. Dealing with an insurgency is something completely different. Short of having guys stationed every ten meters on every inch of the road, which we don't have enough bodies to do, there's not a whole lot to be done that isn't already being tried.
“It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.”
2/75 99-03
Class 8-00
2/75 99-03
Class 8-00
It's an established fact that the Administration knew about the problems they could have had after the initial invasion, the intelligence/military branches told em so. And yet we are having this mess today? They should have had real plans in place to deal with it quickly and effectively...but i guess "stay the course" was good enough.How the fuck can you blame an insurgency on the generals? Fundamentalism + Islam = Insurgency. No way around it, and since you've been in country, you should know how easy it is to be an insurgent...provided you have half a fuckin' bundle of wits about you.
It goes hand in hand, the Anbar province has seen a drastic change because we have done our duty in providing for the citizens and the shitheads have done themselves in with indiscriminate killing....This however came far too late, not that isn't worth continuing, but how many lives were needlessly sacrificed when they didn't have too be?Hearts and Minds will only appease the good jingly fuckers over here, it'll do NOTHING for the guys that already want to kill us. It's stupid beyond belief to think that it would.
Again, they knew they problems they would have, yet they jumped in head first, fuck it....."fuck it" isn't how we should conduct our selves during war. An overwhelming, absolute plan for utter victory should have been created and followed, if they couldn't come up with one, they should have atleast waited before plunging us into a something we, now, cannot control.Dealing with an insurgency is something completely different. Short of having guys stationed every ten meters on every inch of the road, which we don't have enough bodies to do, there's not a whole lot to be done that isn't already being tried.
The CIA made it clear what the fabric of Iraqs cultrue was composed off and what the consequence of freedom would bring---Ignored
Army Chief of State Gen.Shinseki said we would need atleast 250.000 troops to succesfully accomplish this operation---Ignored/Retired
What i'm getting at is, those who serve should demand accountability and competent leadership when we get utilized. If we Don't get it.....DX, move on, and lets get some fresh blood in there.
Banned - Admin Concensus
20 JUN 2007
20 JUN 2007
None of that shit has anything to do with the Generals. They're there to follow orders and carry them out as best they can. However, they can't shit magical peace treaties out of their asses. Accuse the administration for it's blunders, that's fine, but be realistic when you're handing out the blame.AcoG275 wrote:It's an established fact that the Administration knew about the problems they could have had after the initial invasion, the intelligence/military branches told em so. And yet we are having this mess today? They should have had real plans in place to deal with it quickly and effectively...but i guess "stay the course" was good enough.How the fuck can you blame an insurgency on the generals? Fundamentalism + Islam = Insurgency. No way around it, and since you've been in country, you should know how easy it is to be an insurgent...provided you have half a fuckin' bundle of wits about you.
It goes hand in hand, the Anbar province has seen a drastic change because we have done our duty in providing for the citizens and the shitheads have done themselves in with indiscriminate killing....This however came far too late, not that isn't worth continuing, but how many lives were needlessly sacrificed when they didn't have too be?Hearts and Minds will only appease the good jingly fuckers over here, it'll do NOTHING for the guys that already want to kill us. It's stupid beyond belief to think that it would.
Again, they knew they problems they would have, yet they jumped in head first, fuck it....."fuck it" isn't how we should conduct our selves during war. An overwhelming, absolute plan for utter victory should have been created and followed, if they couldn't come up with one, they should have atleast waited before plunging us into a something we, now, cannot control.Dealing with an insurgency is something completely different. Short of having guys stationed every ten meters on every inch of the road, which we don't have enough bodies to do, there's not a whole lot to be done that isn't already being tried.
The CIA made it clear what the fabric of Iraqs cultrue was composed off and what the consequence of freedom would bring---Ignored
Army Chief of State Gen.Shinseki said we would need atleast 250.000 troops to succesfully accomplish this operation---Ignored/Retired
What i'm getting at is, those who serve should demand accountability and competent leadership when we get utilized. If we Don't get it.....DX, move on, and lets get some fresh blood in there.
By the way, there hasn't been any "drastic" change in Anbar. Fallujah and Ramadi are still fucking shit holes, as are Zaidon and the rest of the MSR Mobile/Michigan pipeline. Hearts and minds hasn't done shit, the brief decline in violence is due to insurgents turning on one another, not on us handing out care packages.
“It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.”
2/75 99-03
Class 8-00
2/75 99-03
Class 8-00
,
If this is the solution as you say then it's too late. November 2008 is coming and who knows what will happen....AcoG275 wrote:I don't understand why the President doesn't initiate a draft. This is test of our integrity, do whatever it might take to win. I really do not want to live in a world where we fail in iraq and it plunges into total anarchy...
All this brings to mind the ancient Greek democracy and the lessons learned. When war was imminent the people would vote on the general that will lead the fight. That general had total authority and government could not interfere. War is war.
Leonidas of the 300 was the military king he was voted into that position. Miltiades of Marathon also. Pericles won at Salamis after he was voted into that office.
Point being and this is my opinion, in order to win a war the generals must have the freedom to do what it takes to win. In our society today we don’t allow our military those freedoms as there must be a series of checks and balances that government instills on the military. This in order that the generals (or military) don’t keep government after the war, the fear of a dictatorship is overwhelming. When a country is so small like the ancient days of Sparta and Athens it was easy, the war ends and the soldiers go back to farming…… Now with professional armies it becomes impossible to give the military total power. End result…. The military these days will only be effective for defense of our nation anything else is… impossible. Examples start with all wars after WWII.
That’s that.
To win outside our boarders you must give the generals 100% control. No politics just war! Oh and NO MEDIA!!!
RS Class 5-82
French Commando 11-83
LRSLC Class 5-87
U.S. Army 1980-1984 and 1987-1990
---------
“Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.”
George S. Patton
French Commando 11-83
LRSLC Class 5-87
U.S. Army 1980-1984 and 1987-1990
---------
“Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.”
George S. Patton
Re: ,
Off topic a bit here, but I just read "Gates of Fire" and picked up "Tides of War". Any other good recommendations? The phalanx warfare descriptions were pretty sick in GoF...I'm just surprised that there aren't more novels about the time over here. Same is true of Rome, not much pleasure reading to do about it.Chiron wrote:If this is the solution as you say then it's too late. November 2008 is coming and who knows what will happen....AcoG275 wrote:I don't understand why the President doesn't initiate a draft. This is test of our integrity, do whatever it might take to win. I really do not want to live in a world where we fail in iraq and it plunges into total anarchy...
All this brings to mind the ancient Greek democracy and the lessons learned. When war was imminent the people would vote on the general that will lead the fight. That general had total authority and government could not interfere. War is war.
Leonidas of the 300 was the military king he was voted into that position. Miltiades of Marathon also. Pericles won at Salamis after he was voted into that office.
Point being and this is my opinion, in order to win a war the generals must have the freedom to do what it takes to win. In our society today we don’t allow our military those freedoms as there must be a series of checks and balances that government instills on the military. This in order that the generals (or military) don’t keep government after the war, the fear of a dictatorship is overwhelming. When a country is so small like the ancient days of Sparta and Athens it was easy, the war ends and the soldiers go back to farming…… Now with professional armies it becomes impossible to give the military total power. End result…. The military these days will only be effective for defense of our nation anything else is… impossible. Examples start with all wars after WWII.
That’s that.
To win outside our boarders you must give the generals 100% control. No politics just war! Oh and NO MEDIA!!!
“It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.”
2/75 99-03
Class 8-00
2/75 99-03
Class 8-00
-
RangerJurena
- Ranger/Moderator
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- Joined: September 27th, 2005, 11:00 am
Well I'm not going to debate all the dribble you granola Bn. fags wanna bring up.
What Jurena will tell you is...We could easily be the next Roman empire..nothing but a bright light in history.
Seems everyone forgets our age in regards to the rest of the world. 300 years of what?
What Jurena will tell you is...We could easily be the next Roman empire..nothing but a bright light in history.
Seems everyone forgets our age in regards to the rest of the world. 300 years of what?
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RangerJurena
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Surely, some where, someone can vett you?AcoG275 wrote:I don't understand why the President doesn't initiate a draft. This is test of our integrity, do whatever it might take to win. I really do not want to live in a world where we fail in iraq and it plunges into total anarchy...
Your inability to recognize the "why" speaks volumes about your actual level of understanding.
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I donno, the brigade that we turned over to had significantly less attacks on them than we did.CrashKILL wrote:By the way, there hasn't been any "drastic" change in Anbar. Fallujah and Ramadi are still fucking shit holes, as are Zaidon and the rest of the MSR Mobile/Michigan pipeline. Hearts and minds hasn't done shit, the brief decline in violence is due to insurgents turning on one another, not on us handing out care packages.
I'd assume that it was more due to the line dogs smoking bad guys in the streets of Ramadi and me putting holes in suspected VBIEDs that tried fucking with our convoys on Michigan, than line dogs tossing Jolly Ranchers to kids, though.
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Nice try. I was alluding to Iran. You make a valid point, however.RRDTm3 wrote:Saudi Arabia?hobbit wrote:We invaded the wrong country.
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The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. -Albert Einstein
RVN 70/71
75th RRA Life Member
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. -Albert Einstein
