Rant: Harassment Hysteria in the Military

[Ranger Ron]

Very interesting and complex topic. As usual in a conversation like this we get several questions addressed.

To say that either the mother or father is sole responsible for a pregnancy is crazy. I think most of us know it takes an egg and a sperm to create a baby. Period, end of discussion.

Can a female distract a male from his given assignment???? Yes, thank God!

Are there any jobs in the military that a female can do well and contribute to the overall mission and success of the military? Yes, of course there are!!!

Since the time of my service, I have been a firm believer that this country is making a tremendous mistake by not having mandatory service for all young people. They should all go through military basic training!!! Following that, there could be some non-military service for those who have religious beliefs against it. The remainder of them would serve in the military where they might just learn some respect for each other and their leaders and their country.

I have often thought about a mandatory service time for young folks. My only argument would be how would it be enforced? This day and age I feel "I'm going at any cost" crowd would be huge. I was born in 73, so I really have no insight on that crown during Viet Nam except for wht has been told to me at places like the VFW hall or in the history books. I know we don't really have a "peace movement" as we did in the Viet Nam era but I still feel the liberal side of the house and the country would be up in arms and cause the government huge amounts of money and resources in enforcing a mandatory sevice. THEN what would probably happen is, the President would be blamed for putting the country in further debt. Then I see a Democrat going in office and reversing the law as soon as possible.

I am actually proud that we live in a country where it is not mandatory. It saddens me that young people don't find it an honor to serve as I did. However, I am still proud the young folks have a choice. I just wish they would make these choices for themselves and have a different way of learning that the media. Fucking media.

I understand what you are saying about pride, but at that age I am not sure they have been taught that pride and honor etc yet. In my opinion, children and youg people are often FORCED to do what they don't want to because we as adults and parents know it is to their best interest. Now, there would have to be some consequences for not reporting just like there was with the draft and there could certainly be some incentives for "Premium" service which could give you a chance to volunteer and excel.

[Darksaga]

We were in the field and two Captains were talking about how people walk and how it is indicitive of who they are. A female nurse walks up to them and ask's "How do I walk?". Without missing a beat one of the Captains turns to her and says "Like you have a huge penis." and turns back to his conversation.

[hobbit]

Very interesting and complex topic. As usual in a conversation like this we get several questions addressed.

To say that either the mother or father is sole responsible for a pregnancy is crazy. I think most of us know it takes an egg and a sperm to create a baby. Period, end of discussion.

Can a female distract a male from his given assignment???? Yes, thank God!

Are there any jobs in the military that a female can do well and contribute to the overall mission and success of the military? Yes, of course there are!!!

Since the time of my service, I have been a firm believer that this country is making a tremendous mistake by not having mandatory service for all young people. They should all go through military basic training!!! Following that, there could be some non-military service for those who have religious beliefs against it. The remainder of them would serve in the military where they might just learn some respect for each other and their leaders and their country.

This isn't a military issue Ranger Ron; this is a sexual identity issue. Vietnam veterans in this forum know that Vietnam is one of the few matriarchal societies on earth. In Vietnam, from the time she turns 50 or so, mama-san is lord and ruler of the family clan. In fact, Vietnam's two greatest historical figures are the Trung sisters, warrior siblings who 1500 years before Joan of Arc, led Vietnam's rebel armies against, and defeated, Chinese invaders.

Vietnam turned me into a feminist. When I got home, I didn't fawn over, and condescend to, women. I didn't open their car doors and I didn't fumble all over myself lighting their cigarettes. I didn't regard women too feeble or too stupid to perform these simple tasks for themselves. In short, within the physiological confines described by nature, I considered women my equal on almost every plane. Oddly, in the formative years of “women’s rightsâ€

[SkyShark]

Very interesting and complex topic. As usual in a conversation like this we get several questions addressed.

To say that either the mother or father is sole responsible for a pregnancy is crazy. I think most of us know it takes an egg and a sperm to create a baby. Period, end of discussion.

Can a female distract a male from his given assignment???? Yes, thank God!

Are there any jobs in the military that a female can do well and contribute to the overall mission and success of the military? Yes, of course there are!!!

Since the time of my service, I have been a firm believer that this country is making a tremendous mistake by not having mandatory service for all young people. They should all go through military basic training!!! Following that, there could be some non-military service for those who have religious beliefs against it. The remainder of them would serve in the military where they might just learn some respect for each other and their leaders and their country.

I have often thought about a mandatory service time for young folks. My only argument would be how would it be enforced? This day and age I feel "I'm going at any cost" crowd would be huge. I was born in 73, so I really have no insight on that crown during Viet Nam except for wht has been told to me at places like the VFW hall or in the history books. I know we don't really have a "peace movement" as we did in the Viet Nam era but I still feel the liberal side of the house and the country would be up in arms and cause the government huge amounts of money and resources in enforcing a mandatory sevice. THEN what would probably happen is, the President would be blamed for putting the country in further debt. Then I see a Democrat going in office and reversing the law as soon as possible.

I am actually proud that we live in a country where it is not mandatory. It saddens me that young people don't find it an honor to serve as I did. However, I am still proud the young folks have a choice. I just wish they would make these choices for themselves and have a different way of learning that the media. Fucking media.

I understand what you are saying about pride, but at that age I am not sure they have been taught that pride and honor etc yet. In my opinion, children and youg people are often FORCED to do what they don't want to because we as adults and parents know it is to their best interest. Now, there would have to be some consequences for not reporting just like there was with the draft and there could certainly be some incentives for "Premium" service which could give you a chance to volunteer and excel.

I concur with that. I believe it does go back to where the kids of course are going to believe what their parents teach them. Just as my son knows to take off his ball cap when talking to a lady, and to shake hands with the adults that he meets. He also knows to stand up when a color guard is passing him and how to show respect to the flag. Unfortunatley not every parent out there belives that same way I do. Kids now that have grown up in a household where they don't get spanked and they are free to "express" themselves. That is all they know and they have not been able to experience the real world as thier parents don't want them to.

When I joined I wanted to. I couldn't wait for the day I left. I got there and realized I didn't know shit. I was in a situation where I was forced to grow up. I did because I wanted to be there. If I didn't want to be there then it probably would have been a different story.

Look at it this way. Maybe some of the Rangers here on the site can add to this as I know a couple of them are in cadre postitions. If you had a company size element of guys there in a training and let's say 10% of them did not want to be there and wanted to get out because they were forced there, how much time would the cadre and Drills have to spend with them. I think all that time would be taking away from the training of the men and women that DO want to be there. I just don't see how you can force discipline on someone that doesn't want it and wioll resist you in every way they can. It isn't like the movies where the Drills can knock you on your ass. These kids know that you can't touch them. They will push all the buttons they can. Then what? an Article 15? A Court Martial? Pretty soon the jails are going to be filled with deserters and AWOL personel. The next President will be a liberal and then all of them will be pardoned. Hell, Clinton did it for all the fucking Yahoos that went to Canada.

I agree with you, I do believe we should have the mandatory service. I just don't see how we can do it. Maybe we should go back where Drills can have wall to wall counseling with those that want ot resist.

[The Holmchicken]

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Fags and females are the downfall of the American Army.

True, but you still have the right to serve.

Fucker!

[Looon]

Women arent' the problem, in general when it comes to the military. Its the military and the Govt.

Most, if not all of the interaction I had with women whilst in, was when I was getting laid, or putting a dollar in a strippers g-string.

The only BS I can say that I witnessed was the horseshit double standard in BAC.

Women had to lay on their backs (go figure) then reach up and grab the chin up bar. I watch man after man get a no-go because he wasn't strong enough to pull the risers. Total BS!!!!!!!

Other wise, I had no problem!!

[The Holmchicken]

Everyone needs to stop and look at how gossip this one topic has generated since this morning. Besides Batt, I've served in two mixed gender, CS units and have been to the 18th Airborne Corps EOR Course. I wrote fags and females are the downfall because nothing in my 10 years has shown me any reason to think otherwise. There are fucked up male soldiers, plenty to go around. But I can discipline them (for the most part) without the fear of an EO/Sexual Harrassment charge coming on me. Or seeing them breakdown in tears. Or playing both sides against the middle because they feel digging foxholes is "yucky". The amount of slack that is given to female soldiers is disgusting. They giggle, blush, don't stand at parade rest, flirt, whatever, while the male soldier right next to them (of the same rank) is getting his ass reamed. I also blame this on weak NCO's who think more of getting in a female soldiers pants than training her to become an effective soldier. Bottom line, in an area where any female companionship is rare and American females at a premium, you're going to have problems. They are a distraction to the job at hand at best, downright harmful to the morale and disposition of the unit at worse. Again, there's always exceptions to the rules. I've worked with a handful that were good soldiers. By and large, I'm not impressed. The Army also needs to realize that it has agressive, active young men in their ranks who aren't just going to "turn-off' sexual desires. Compound this with the stress of a deployment and all the above and you have a powder keg of trouble on your hands.

[Julieanne]

Where in the heck is the fraternization policy? Can't I find that online somewhere?

My first company commander and first sergeant, were the same as Wades. These two were fantastic. The CO was a hard ass chick, and her 1st SGT, was a HUGE MOFO of a man. They made it very clear that bullshit was not tolerated. Chicks couldn't even have free hanging pony tails, the hair had to be in a TIGHT bun, even during free time... Tolerating giggling, and all that dumb gender profiling crap w/ pt is so not on. Pull ups are pull ups the same standard for everyone- peer pressure is a fantastic thing .

So my point is this, leadership needs to set the standard. Across the board. And sure, non-adherence will still happen, but if everyone was able to put the fear of GRITS in their subordinates, there would be alot less of it.

This may very well be a gender identity issue, but the fact is, chicks are in the ranks, and I highly doubt they will be ousted anytime soon. SO... somebody needs to try to resolve this with something other than "sensitivity training", b/c that crap is for fags, liberals and wussies.

[RTO]

[hobbit]

...peer pressure is a fantastic thing

The most basic unit of the Roman Army was the conturbenium. It consisted of 8 men. They shared a tent on campaign or a room in a fortefied border post, and they always fought together shoulder-to-shoulder in battle. Though the Roman Army had available such laws of dicipline as "decimation", where every tenth soldier was executed if the legion they belonged to exhibited cowardice in battle, such drastic measures were extremely rare. It was peer pressure toward suicidal bravery from within the conturbenium that made the Roman Army the finest in history. Being killed in battle was bad, being executed for cowardice was even worse, but the worst disgrace imaginable to a Roman soldier was to be held unworthy in the eyes of one's conturbenium mates. Better to die in battle than suffer that humiliation. Peer pressure is what built the Roman Empire, and the greatest army in history.