Bars and Crime

[Cat]

depression, people who are under stress from work or lack of, problems in domestic areas such as divorce rate etc. may drink to forget and then become angry when those issues surface. It makes people let their guard down and allows their true feelings to emerge, whether it is happy or sad angry, violent, clepto, etc.

These are socio-demographic characteristics of the make up of bar patrons. We do not have the time to evaluate these things. But you are right they do affect the crime rate in bar areas to some extent.

[Sigi]

Bars and Crime
Patrons likely to carry cash
Patrons likely to have consumed alcohol making them more vulnerable
Items of value often become visible in bars
Less willing to resist a crime
Alcohol weakens internal controls
People in bars are often in areas where they don't reside and thus are anonymous
Large number of people drawn to bars
Motivated offenders drawn to bars

Drugs are more readily available in larger bars.
People with lower inhibitions tend to try new things (crime or drugs)
Association with someone like you.
Chance of meeting an enemy in a bar increases.
Rivalry over women.
Rivalry over gangs and geography (this is my bar, get the fuck out)
Alcohol is a depressant, making some people angry and despondent.
Blackouts from too much drinking.
Binge drinking.
Shots, shots, shots are readily available.

[rangercamaro]

ok Cat i'm confused. you ask us ?'s and then our answers are off mark to what you were looking for. SS last post is a great example of this. Give a mentally challenged Ranger such as myself a rope to follow to the course of answers you obviously are looking for. (Lead us to your water) :?

I'm sorry but its been a while since i've read many academic type books.

BTW have you read Michael Tonry's article on the court room workgroup? If so what's your opinion.

[Cat]

I like my bars seedy, dark, and dangerous. I like looking over my shoulder as I go to leave. It is exciting. It keeps me awake! I gravitate towards the bad side of town where the crack heads and cruds hang out. Cat, why doesn't your class go out in the field and study the matter instead of asking others ?

We have been researching in the field - all semester :D .


Thanks Sigi for your list, good stuff.

[Cat]

ok Cat i'm confused. you ask us ?'s and then our answers are off mark to what you were looking for. SS last post is a great example of this. Give a mentally challenged Ranger such as myself a rope to follow to the course of answers you obviously are looking for. (Lead us to your water) :?

I'm sorry but its been a while since i've read many academic type books.

BTW have you read Michael Tonry's article on the court room workgroup? If so what's your opinion.

Lets throw out methods and all the other stuff.


Sitting in a bar or walking in an area with bars, what do you think would make crime occur? Or why is crime higher in these areas? What is unique to bars that may explain why crime is higher there?

[Cat]

BTW have you read Michael Tonry's article on the court room workgroup? If so what's your opinion.

Yes I have. In fact I have an exam including the article on CWGs in 10 minutes :D . Good article. I'll explain what I think soon.

[rangercamaro]

Drugs are more readily available in larger bars.
People with lower inhibitions tend to try new things (crime or drugs)
Association with someone like you.
Chance of meeting an enemy in a bar increases.
Rivalry over women.
Rivalry over gangs and geography (this is my bar, get the fuck out)
Alcohol is a depressant, making some people angry and despondent.
Blackouts from too much drinking.
Binge drinking.
Shots, shots, shots are readily available.[/quote]

Sorry SIGI but i have issues with a couple of your statements.

Drugs may be more readily available in larger bars but the most flow usually starts out in the smaller bars. Then it is moved to the bigger bars. This being that there is less chance to get caught in a "Cheers" atmosphere compared to a college Meat market bar.

Lower inhibitions is true except that most people in the bars have either already begun the use of drugs or are going there to use/ find more of the drug.

[rangercamaro]

OK Cat i see ya now! Good Pen light flare!!!

I think one thing is that a potential criminal thinks that the victims mental state may be diminished by alcohol enough that their short term recollection of a crime may not be very good. Therefore their chance of getting away with it is higher. So a highened perception of not getting caught by the perps.

am i on right track?

[rangercamaro]

BTW have you read Michael Tonry's article on the court room workgroup? If so what's your opinion.

Yes I have. In fact I have an exam including the article on CWGs in 10 minutes :D . Good article. I'll explain what I think soon.

Good luck on the test!! BTW i have found that in our community Michael Tonry is right on with his article. I have been in the chambers of the judge before a trial talking to both attorneys and the judge about the case. The decision was made before the first person was sworn in. The attorneys sell some down the river to get the big fish off the hook. It's a counter balance act at best. It's also more effective that way. shorter cases and the backload is caught up a little. Now a disclaimer, not all the cases are like this but the majority are because they deal with the same recidivising 1% of the community and everyone knows that the people are shitbags.

Sorry to burst the justice bubble but the truth is the truth.

[straightshooter]

Let's try this again,
Peoples inhibitions are lowered as you stated in your list. People can become easier targets. For example a stalker may be watching a woman who is out looking for a conversation or mere companionship for the evening because she's tired of the same old routines. People socialize more in bars and as they drink they make slips and give out information to total strangers, (strangers who already have there motives set before entering the bar) that they may not normally give out during conversations because the alcohol has clouded that judgement (impairment)
People use bars to socialize for whatever reason.

[Looon]

When I used to go whoren in bars I'm the one that was drinking. The bar didn't post subliminal messages to make me act stupid, which I have been known to do on numerous occasions. When I used to get into bar fights, I didn't blame the bar for promoting violence. Even though I can say I didn't cause the trouble, I just stopped going, because of the potential of someone being stupid.

[Cat]

OK Cat i see ya now! Good Pen light flare!!!

I think one thing is that a potential criminal thinks that the victims mental state may be diminished by alcohol enough that their short term recollection of a crime may not be very good. Therefore their chance of getting away with it is higher. So a highened perception of not getting caught by the perps.

am i on right track?

Yep thank you. We looked closely at motivated offenders while at the bars. Parking seems to be an issue. Most bars that we looked at had parking that was some distance away and therefore increased someone's likelihood of being a crime victim. Parking for other commercial establishments doesn't seem to have the distances involved.

Plus we looked at the downtown area which is where my campus is located and a lot of college students walk to and from bars thus increasing their victimization as well.

[Cat]

BTW have you read Michael Tonry's article on the court room workgroup? If so what's your opinion.

Yes I have. In fact I have an exam including the article on CWGs in 10 minutes :D . Good article. I'll explain what I think soon.

Good luck on the test!! BTW i have found that in our community Michael Tonry is right on with his article. I have been in the chambers of the judge before a trial talking to both attorneys and the judge about the case. The decision was made before the first person was sworn in. The attorneys sell some down the river to get the big fish off the hook. It's a counter balance act at best. It's also more effective that way. shorter cases and the backload is caught up a little. Now a disclaimer, not all the cases are like this but the majority are because they deal with the same recidivising 1% of the community and everyone knows that the people are shitbags.

Sorry to burst the justice bubble but the truth is the truth.

So true Rangercamaro. I spent some time in the DAs office and public defenders offices this summer. Justice is not really what is sought after in most cases IMO. The CWG calculates the 'going rate' for a crime and the deal is worked out most times before a trial. The defendants' due process rights guaranteed by our constitution are therefore negated on the grounds of efficiency. I don't know what I think about that yet, it is a weighing of things that go on everyday in our CJ systems.

Test over - I smoked it. Thanks for the thought :D

[IntelToad]

Let's see......Little Richards, Pillowtalk, L&H Lounge....I will personally swear before a Senate Committee that dive bars and tittie bars can lead to filthy mouths and bad attitudes...and strong doses of penicillin.

[Spartan]

I don't understand the purpose of this discussion. Bars and Crime?

Yes, those who commit crimes should be behind bars.

What is the big deal?