Fall of Bataan
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- rangertough
- Ranger/Moderator
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- Joined: January 27th, 2005, 3:02 pm
Re: Fall of Bataan
Mobilized and trained maybe...led assuredly not.
My main issue comes from MacA's propensity to disobey orders that were detrimental to his ego and follow those that benefitted his career or saved his ass.
Even back in WWII when General Officers had enough of an effect on the battlefield to matter some understood that they were not the Lynch pin that the war hinged upon. Abrams, Bradley and Kota are examples of this. They properly trained replacements and staffs for the eventuality of their demise.
I cannot begin to fathom anyone who would place the same importance on MacA as IKE. IKE was the only GO all the Allies would agree to to run the show. It made sense not to put him on the landings. Who else could placate Churchill (much less convince Winnie he was a better man than Monty) prevent DeGaul from needlessly sacrificing troops to set him up as king of France and finally keep Patton under control.
Tough
My main issue comes from MacA's propensity to disobey orders that were detrimental to his ego and follow those that benefitted his career or saved his ass.
Even back in WWII when General Officers had enough of an effect on the battlefield to matter some understood that they were not the Lynch pin that the war hinged upon. Abrams, Bradley and Kota are examples of this. They properly trained replacements and staffs for the eventuality of their demise.
I cannot begin to fathom anyone who would place the same importance on MacA as IKE. IKE was the only GO all the Allies would agree to to run the show. It made sense not to put him on the landings. Who else could placate Churchill (much less convince Winnie he was a better man than Monty) prevent DeGaul from needlessly sacrificing troops to set him up as king of France and finally keep Patton under control.
Tough
Rangertough
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
C CO/HHC 2/75 '93-97, Bragg '97-'99, HHC/C CO/A CO 2/75 99'-'01 RS 8-94.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
C CO/HHC 2/75 '93-97, Bragg '97-'99, HHC/C CO/A CO 2/75 99'-'01 RS 8-94.
Re: Fall of Bataan
Should have been:Tough, you aren't looking at the big picture, MacArthur had to take the Army to Australia. He took the war to the Japanese, Ranger O'Kelly had it right, FDR ordered him to go to Australia.Jim wrote:Tough. You aren't. MacArthur had to take the Army to Australia. He took the war to the Japaneese.rangertough wrote:Jim wrote:Tomorrow is the 70th annaversery of the fall of Bataan. Followed by the "Bataan Death March." One of the low points for the US Army.
http://blogs.krqe.com/2012/04/07/albuqu ... niversary/
An event that to me proved MacArthur was a coward of the lowest order.
Tough
Ranger Class 13-71
Advisor, VN 66-68 69-70
42d Vn Ranger Battalion 1969-1970
Trainer, El Salvador 86-87
Advisor, Saudi Arabian National Guard 91, 93-94
75th RRA Life Member #867
Advisor, VN 66-68 69-70
42d Vn Ranger Battalion 1969-1970
Trainer, El Salvador 86-87
Advisor, Saudi Arabian National Guard 91, 93-94
75th RRA Life Member #867
- rangertough
- Ranger/Moderator
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- Joined: January 27th, 2005, 3:02 pm
Re: Fall of Bataan
Jim wrote:Should have been:Tough, you aren't looking at the big picture, MacArthur had to take the Army to Australia. He took the war to the Japanese, Ranger O'Kelly had it right, FDR ordered him to go to Australia.Jim wrote:Tough. You aren't. MacArthur had to take the Army to Australia. He took the war to the Japaneese.rangertough wrote:
An event that to me proved MacArthur was a coward of the lowest order.
Tough
No worries. I figured the whole message wasn't transmitted. Needed clarification.
The Army could have moved W/O him and been as or more successful without his arrogant self serving ass.
I never said I didn't understand the reasoning behind the order. I hate the cat because he would disobey orders for his self promotion but slavishly followed them for his own safety.
Tough
Rangertough
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
C CO/HHC 2/75 '93-97, Bragg '97-'99, HHC/C CO/A CO 2/75 99'-'01 RS 8-94.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
C CO/HHC 2/75 '93-97, Bragg '97-'99, HHC/C CO/A CO 2/75 99'-'01 RS 8-94.
Re: Fall of Bataan
Even now, MacArthur is getting attention that should be going to the soldiers who served under him.....
C Co 3/75 88-90 (Just Cause)
124 MI(LRSD) 90-91 (Desert Storm)
Repeal the 16th, enforce the 10th.
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124 MI(LRSD) 90-91 (Desert Storm)
Repeal the 16th, enforce the 10th.
ΜΩΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
"I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all." Gen. James Mattis
Panem Et Circenses
My safe space
Re: Fall of Bataan
Although McA and Patton had it right in the closing days of WWII. Patton wanted to kick the Russkie's asses all the way to Siberia and McA wanted to do the same to the CHICOMs. Had we allowed them to do it, we had the men and equipment and were the only nuclear power, world would be a much better place. "If IFs and Butts were candies and nuts" comes to mind.
SOETORO / BIDEN 2012
"For a Socialist Tomorrow, Today!"
SOETORO / BIDEN 2012
"For a Socialist Tomorrow, Today!"
1st Ranger Bn 86-92, C Co, HHC, Bn COLT, RHQ 94-95 Ranger Class 14-87 MFF 05 May 88
"Life is like a drop zone, sometimes you just miss the whole damn thing!"
"Life is like a drop zone, sometimes you just miss the whole damn thing!"
Re: Fall of Bataan
Although it's painful, it serves us well to remember that many of our heroes had feet of clay. They were, after all, just men trying to do extrordinary things in extrordinary times.
I never wore a cape, but I still have my dog tags.
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173rd Abn LRRP...'66/'67
C/1/506 101st Abn
B/2/325 82nd Abn
Experienced Peek Freak!!
173rd Abn LRRP...'66/'67
C/1/506 101st Abn
B/2/325 82nd Abn
Re: Fall of Bataan
Tell that to the Marines, those Battling Bastards of Bataan.TC204 wrote:U.S. forces weren't even properly trained around the time of Corregidor, plus they didn't have enough food and ammo for any kind of sustained fighting. The Japanese were well trained and fanatical, aggressive fighters. Our guys had heart, but they weren't ready for war at that time. Not with the Japanese!
L Company Ranger
RVN 70/71
75th RRA Life Member
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. -Albert Einstein
RVN 70/71
75th RRA Life Member
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. -Albert Einstein
- Sleepy Doc
- Ranger
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Re: Fall of Bataan
Or the men of "Suicide Charley" company, 1st Bn/7th Marines..hobbit wrote:Tell that to the Marines, those Battling Bastards of Bataan.TC204 wrote:U.S. forces weren't even properly trained around the time of Corregidor, plus they didn't have enough food and ammo for any kind of sustained fighting. The Japanese were well trained and fanatical, aggressive fighters. Our guys had heart, but they weren't ready for war at that time. Not with the Japanese!
B Co 3/75 '95-'99
4th RTB '00-'01
"ahh, Daniel-san.. When balance good, Karate good...everything good!.." K. Miyagi
4th RTB '00-'01
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- rgrokelley
- Triple Canopy
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Re: Fall of Bataan
Something most folks don't realize is that prior to the post-WWII military, we were not a nation with a large standing army. We only had an army when we needed it. The good thing about this is that you don't spend a lot of tax money on, as Eisenhower called it, the industrial military complex. The bad thing about not having a large standing army is that you started most wars by getting your ass kicked.
A & C Company, 3rd Ranger Battalion 1984-1986
2/325, 82nd Airborne 1979-1984
F Company, 51st LRSU 1986-1988
5th Special Forces Group 1989-1995
3rd Special Forces Group 1997-1999
RS - DHG 5-85
2/325, 82nd Airborne 1979-1984
F Company, 51st LRSU 1986-1988
5th Special Forces Group 1989-1995
3rd Special Forces Group 1997-1999
RS - DHG 5-85
Re: Fall of Bataan
Task Force Smith!rgrokelley wrote:Something most folks don't realize is that prior to the post-WWII military, we were not a nation with a large standing army. We only had an army when we needed it. The good thing about this is that you don't spend a lot of tax money on, as Eisenhower called it, the industrial military complex. The bad thing about not having a large standing army is that you started most wars by getting your ass kicked.
Ranger Class 13-71
Advisor, VN 66-68 69-70
42d Vn Ranger Battalion 1969-1970
Trainer, El Salvador 86-87
Advisor, Saudi Arabian National Guard 91, 93-94
75th RRA Life Member #867
Advisor, VN 66-68 69-70
42d Vn Ranger Battalion 1969-1970
Trainer, El Salvador 86-87
Advisor, Saudi Arabian National Guard 91, 93-94
75th RRA Life Member #867
Re: Fall of Bataan
My thoughts exactly. Pray for peace..... but ALWAYS prepared.... for WAR!Jim wrote:Task Force Smith!rgrokelley wrote:Something most folks don't realize is that prior to the post-WWII military, we were not a nation with a large standing army. We only had an army when we needed it. The good thing about this is that you don't spend a lot of tax money on, as Eisenhower called it, the industrial military complex. The bad thing about not having a large standing army is that you started most wars by getting your ass kicked.
1st Ranger Bn 86-92, C Co, HHC, Bn COLT, RHQ 94-95 Ranger Class 14-87 MFF 05 May 88
"Life is like a drop zone, sometimes you just miss the whole damn thing!"
"Life is like a drop zone, sometimes you just miss the whole damn thing!"
- rangertough
- Ranger/Moderator
- Posts: 1675
- Joined: January 27th, 2005, 3:02 pm
Re: Fall of Bataan
To be fair I think TF Smith got it's ass kicked by Korea itself. They weren't just untrained they were logistically unprepared.Jim wrote:Task Force Smith!rgrokelley wrote:Something most folks don't realize is that prior to the post-WWII military, we were not a nation with a large standing army. We only had an army when we needed it. The good thing about this is that you don't spend a lot of tax money on, as Eisenhower called it, the industrial military complex. The bad thing about not having a large standing army is that you started most wars by getting your ass kicked.
Tough
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Rangertough
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
C CO/HHC 2/75 '93-97, Bragg '97-'99, HHC/C CO/A CO 2/75 99'-'01 RS 8-94.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
C CO/HHC 2/75 '93-97, Bragg '97-'99, HHC/C CO/A CO 2/75 99'-'01 RS 8-94.