Orienteering Question

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rpmcmurphy
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Orienteering Question

Post by rpmcmurphy »

I joined a local orienteering club and have attended two events so far, completing two courses each time. I took to it pretty naturally, I think. Only managed to get lost once, on my second run that day, when it started pouring down rain and visibility was sharply reduced. But I eventually found my control point and still finished with a competitive time. I'm definitely looking forward to improving.

Anyway, my question comes after reading this several-year-old post from Ranger panthersix: http://armyranger.com/bb/viewtopic.php? ... b7#p594966

He suggested that the differences in scale between maps used by orienteering clubs and maps used for military land navigation exercises might "mess you up for Ranger School." So on that note, are there any other differences between the sport of orienteering and the land navigation performed at RASP that I should keep in mind before becoming too much more in involved in the sport?

Thank you.
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rangertough
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by rangertough »

I think any experience with land nav will be great for you. I did Orienteering in Scouts and learned to navigate long before I was exposed to MGRS.

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rpmcmurphy
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by rpmcmurphy »

Roger, Ranger rangertough.

Roger, Ranger Tater Nuts. If I understand you correctly, the more practice I get, the better. There is a night orienteering event coming up in a few weeks that I plan to attend. I'm looking forward to it.
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by Jim »

You will soon learn that with land navigation, you will become more confident as you gain experience. Never, never quit!
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rpmcmurphy
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by rpmcmurphy »

Roger, Ranger Jim.

I appreciate the responses, Rangers. Good to know that the time I'm spending orienteering is worthwhile.
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RangerX
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by RangerX »

Tater Nuts wrote:Become adept at walking backwards through brush, at night, with your collar turned up to keep spiders out. All while holding compass in middle of your chest using a back azimuth.
In addition to this, you might want to pick up a pair of clear safely glasses or goggle so you don't catch a wait-a-minute vine in your eyeball.

Oh, and water features frequently aren't marked on maps...
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by Jim »

RangerX wrote: Oh, and water features frequently aren't marked on maps...
As we have all learned the hard way.
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rangertough
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by rangertough »

RangerX wrote:
Tater Nuts wrote:Become adept at walking backwards through brush, at night, with your collar turned up to keep spiders out. All while holding compass in middle of your chest using a back azimuth.
In addition to this, you might want to pick up a pair of clear safely glasses or goggle so you don't catch a wait-a-minute vine in your eyeball.

Oh, and water features frequently aren't marked on maps...
Second the eye pro. Nothing expensive.

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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by rpmcmurphy »

Rangers RangerX and rangertough, safety glasses are a good idea. Hadn't thought of that at all. Glad you mentioned it.

Also, I experienced a few head scratch inducing water features the day I ran in the rain, so I have at least a vague idea of what you all are referring to there. In my case though, the unmarked water features probably had more to do with the weather that day than the completeness of the map I was using. I am assuming you all are referring to the latter situation, however.
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by RangerX »

A little of both actually. Yes, weather will generate impromptu water features.

What will be more of a surprise is when you are walking in the woods at night, on what you think is flat land, when suddenly you are proving Newton right and getting some swim practice in.

This is one of the many reasons Rangers are so stringent on the swim test.

Me personally, I think land nav is one of the best ways to develop situational awareness. You are constantly paying attention to your surroundings, you have to be ready to adapt your plan, and if you are on a night course you will certainly test your reaction abilities.
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by Sleepy Doc »

Differenceces in size/scale of maps shouldn't be too much of a problem. Topo maps are topo maps, the main difference is in the amount of detail. The larger issue if you are doing sport orienteering is the map symbols. The IOF symbols are nothing like those on a USGS/MGRS topo map. It just means you will have to learn the navigation symbols all over again.

That being said.. plotting an azimuth and keeping pace count don't change no matter where you are. The only exception to this is if you were trying to land nave in open desert with no terrain features whatsoever. Think about it: you are just using your starting point, picking another fixed object as a point, drawing an imaginary line between the two and moving out. Simple, no? But definitely equal parts art and science. Also, one of those things that the more you do of it, the better you will get.

Rather than do the "race" type orienteering, do some that is slow and deliberate. Get used to estimating a pace count under varied terrain. Practice "weaving" trees and objects from point to point to keep a correct azimuth. All bull-shitting aside, the land nav skills you will need are no more complicated that what is taught in the Boy Scouts. You might be using a fancier compass that has radium markers, but the principles, intersection/resection, dead-reckoning, etc? Nothing has changed with them since men first started navigating using magnetic north.

Granted, medics generally don't get saddled with doing land nav when patroling, but I'll tell you what.. every time I had to use a map and compass, either at Mountain Phase for EFMB or in the jungles of Panama, I tore that shit up using skills I learned as a kid at the local state park with a 10 dollar compass.
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by rpmcmurphy »

Roger, Ranger RangerX. I see what you're saying. Your post also made me realize that I would probably benefit from getting some swimming practice in before shipping out.

And roger, Ranger Sleepy Doc. Advice heard. With the emphasis in orienteering on getting the best time possible, it's easy to get caught up in the whole racing aspect, as you allude to.

I know you're right though, about needing to slow down in order to become proficient in the techniques. I'll try to focus on that from here on out, specifically pace counting. I haven't even attempted to do so yet, but I think now that I'm getting the very basics of land nav down, getting used to pace counting would be a good next... "step."
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Re: Orienteering Question

Post by Jim »

rpmcmurphy wrote:Roger, Ranger RangerX. I see what you're saying. Your post also made me realize that I would probably benefit from getting some swimming practice in before shipping out.

And roger, Ranger Sleepy Doc. Advice heard. With the emphasis in orienteering on getting the best time possible, it's easy to get caught up in the whole racing aspect, as you allude to.

I know you're right though, about needing to slow down in order to become proficient in the techniques. I'll try to focus on that from here on out, specifically pace counting. I haven't even attempted to do so yet, but I think now that I'm getting the very basics of land nav down, getting used to pace counting would be a good next... "step."
On the swimming. You need to learn drown-proofing. Jump into a pool with all equipment, to include rifle and swim the length of the pool. That is the standard -- otherwise you are treated as a "weak Swimmer." Please do not attempt this alone. Ensure that you have someone (or two) with you to pull you out to throw you a lifeline and drag you out!

You need to establish your own pace count. Measure 100 meters on several types of terrain and practice learning how many steps for that distance. As an example on level ground your pace for 100 m may be 105 steps. On hilly ground it may be 128. On steep ground it may be 150 steps in 100 m. Use a piece of 550 nylon and make a string to record your distance. If you tie a knot every 100 m, when you have 10 knots, you have passed one kilometer. Practice until you become comfortable with your own pace.

Never, never quit!
Ranger Class 13-71
Advisor, VN 66-68 69-70
42d Vn Ranger Battalion 1969-1970
Trainer, El Salvador 86-87
Advisor, Saudi Arabian National Guard 91, 93-94
75th RRA Life Member #867
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