Torn Meniscus

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mortar_guy78
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Torn Meniscus

Post by mortar_guy78 »

I tore my meniscus in Basic in 1997, and of course it was misdiagnosed as tendonitis even though my knee was so swollen you could not see my kneecap. Despite this, I went for the next 12 years just sucking it up until I figured out that something was, in fact, wrong. So once they figured out that I had a giant tear on my lateral meniscus, they decided to operate and told me it was no big deal.

Post-op they told me thay had to take out more of the meniscus than they thought, and that my knee is now unstable. A month later, the surgeon recommends me for an MMRB. Then it turns out that the profile he wrote me should get me kicked out of the army and I have to fight not to go to an MEB. I go to the MMRB, tell tham I am fine and I can do my job no sweat. All I want to do is train killers to drop mortar rounds and lead them in combat. Of course, they tell me I have to reclass and now I'm waiting on the paperwork.

My question is, how can I strengthen my knee and maybe get a second opinion so I can appeal the board's decision? Honestly, it does hurt like a motherfucker and when I pivot just right I can feel the bones grinding together. There's got to be a way to get it better. I went through physical therapy and that was a joke. I'd get better PT walking to my truck in the hospital parking lot. So...

Any ideas?
HHC 4/64 AR '97-'99
HHC 1/75 RGR '99-'01
HHC 1/508 ABCT '01-'04
C co, HHC 2/1 IN '04-'07
C co, B co 1/24 IN '07-'11
D co 308th MI '12-'15
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panthersix
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by panthersix »

I think you're in the wrong forum for that type of question. You may want to find a good sports ortho surgeon and ask him (never met a ortho her yet) what you can do to fix what you can on it.

Urban areas with major or large universities with division one football and a bunch of other sports should have a couple of outstanding orthopedists.

Example: I was playing rugby in Canada, got tackled from behind and hyper extended my right ankle and broke the tip of the tibia off into the ankle joint. Saw two Canadian docs that were supposed to be ruggers themselves and they both said it was a bad sprain. I played two more weeks on it as we were a small team with no depth up front in the scrum.

I get back to the University of Maryland to start fall rugby and I just can't play anymore, in fact I couldn't run at all and was limping badly. The sports med clinic on campus took the correct x-ray and told me that I'd snapped the tip of the tibia off into the joint. Did I get a cast and was I all better in 6 weeks? Negative - I had to walk it off, I had worn off the lining of the joint and it took 18 months to regenerate and for the bone chip to dissolve.
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dbmtrman
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by dbmtrman »

I'm not expert by any means, but I've had 3 meniscus tears. 2 on left, 1 on the right. The first two went really well, in large part I feel because of the therapy. The last one the therapy sucked, and knee didn't come away feeling so great. Do you take glucosimine and chondrotin? IMO the stuff really works. It will help with the remaining cartiledge. You have to take a higher dose then the bottle says though. I personally take the Osteo-bi flex. It takes a couple months of usage to really start getting the full effects. The way I know it is working is after I've been on it for a while, and then stop suddenly. I feel like a hundred year old man.

My ortho recommended alot of core muscle strengthening exercises to help with the muscles around the knee. That seemed to stabalize it quite a bit. You also may want to get a civilian doc to check it out with an mri. You may have another tear. Once the meniscus is torn, it is suseptible to further tears.
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whocares175
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by whocares175 »

ok, so good news is you can still do your job with your knee. we'll start with strengthening exercises, squats (light weight high reps), leg press, dead lifts, leg extensions, leg curls, typical leg stuff however keep in mind that exercises involving weight bearing directly to your knees (squats, hack squats, etc) use light weight and high reps. also, you'll want to do balancing exercises. most physical therapy offices have a device that's like 1/3 of a ball and flat on one end to stand on that'll make you wobble around. get your hands on one of these and balance on the injured leg. then when you can do 3 sets of those of 60seconds with no issues, add throwing a 5lbs medicine ball against the wall. instead of running use the eliptical and swim. do these exercises 3-4 times a week. ice as necessary. if you dont notice a difference in a few months reconsult with an ortho doc about possible meniscal removal. yes, this is on the extreme end and recovery will be painful but you can stay in and do your job even without a meniscus. alot of career combat arms soldiers end up with no menisci anyways because of all the running, rucking and jumping grinds it down. here at the school house we had a navy cheif (e-7) undergo meniscal removal and now he's back to running 5-6 miles whenever he wants. ruck running is still painful but, i dont recommend that for anyone. the biggest thing about any ortho injury is physcial therapy. the problem with most army pt's are they dont deal too often with type a, stubborn, combat oriented personalities so when you come in they are going to give you the soft shit that everyone else does.
10th mountain division 2/22 scout plt 2002-04
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whocares175
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by whocares175 »

ok, so now that you have a list of things to do i have some questions for you....
how often does your knee swell? what's the pain level during running? do you have full extension and flexion of your knee or is it stopped prematurely anywhere (if in doubt compare with uninjured side)? is there any popping or clicking? when? obviously without being there i can't give you a full, proper knee exam but i'll do my best on here. if you'd prefer pm me and we can talk there.
10th mountain division 2/22 scout plt 2002-04
1/75th Ranger Regt 2004-2006
Ranger school class 8-05
2008-2011-Q course
2011-present-10th Special Forces Group (A) Ft. Carson, CO
panthersix
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by panthersix »

Got any advice for a torn LCL? The doc at the VA gave me some creme with Capsaicin in it to rub on it....

http://osteoarthritis.about.com/od/pain ... saicin.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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mortar_guy78
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by mortar_guy78 »

whocares175 wrote:ok, so now that you have a list of things to do i have some questions for you....
how often does your knee swell? what's the pain level during running? do you have full extension and flexion of your knee or is it stopped prematurely anywhere (if in doubt compare with uninjured side)? is there any popping or clicking? when? obviously without being there i can't give you a full, proper knee exam but i'll do my best on here. if you'd prefer pm me and we can talk there.
My knee swells after PT usually, and I end up icing it for about 20 minutes. I have been doing the elliptical like crazy and there is no pain until I try to do the hill climb setting. Running is usually fine for the first 15-20 minutes, and then I'd say the pain level is 4-5. There is popping when I pivot on my right foot; not all the time, but occasionally, usually followed by the grinding that I talked about before.

Thanks, bro.
HHC 4/64 AR '97-'99
HHC 1/75 RGR '99-'01
HHC 1/508 ABCT '01-'04
C co, HHC 2/1 IN '04-'07
C co, B co 1/24 IN '07-'11
D co 308th MI '12-'15
7th SFG(A) MICO '15-'18
C co 308th MI '18-Present


Keep your mind in hell and despair not.

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES
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whocares175
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by whocares175 »

how long ago was your surgery? do you have any of your lateral meniscus left? as for the high impact stuff (running and rucking mainly) try and stay away from those for a little while. concentrate mainly on the elipitical and swimming if you can. if you feel you have to running try using a treadmill with a good incline (running uphill is a better workout and surprisingly lower impact than flat ground). i can tell you popping post surgery is relatively normal. i had a meniscal repair and acl reconstruction done in jan. running hurts and my knee swells as well. i still have some residual swelling that has not fully gone away and i can pretty much get my knee to pop on command but my ortho surgeon (who is a Ranger as well, surprisingly) isn't worried about any of it, so neither am i. as long as the pain stays around the 4-5 level (and i'm assuming more of a constant ache than a sharp pain) it's ok.
i'm also assuming you dont have any restrictions in movement? really hit the balancing exercises and strengthening exercises hard. balancing helps re-build proprioception (which is your body basically knowing where it's parts are automatically, how you know where your little toe is without looking at it). proprioception gets lost post-op along with muscle atrophy due to nerves getting cut and also as a defense mechanism so you aren't feeling the FULL effect of the pain all the time.
10th mountain division 2/22 scout plt 2002-04
1/75th Ranger Regt 2004-2006
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whocares175
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by whocares175 »

panthersix wrote:Got any advice for a torn LCL? The doc at the VA gave me some creme with Capsaicin in it to rub on it....

http://osteoarthritis.about.com/od/pain ... saicin.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
how long ago did you tear it? is it a complete tear or partial tear? how did you tear it? do you feel any current instability in your knee? what is your pain level resting? during exertion? have you had an mri?
the cream you got is basically icy-hot or bengay. so while it can help with any join discomfort it wont help for any instability. an lcl you can live a pretty active lifestyle without sincei it is mainly a supportive stabilizer. the main one being your acl however, general strengtheing and balance exercises can make things easier on your knee by allowing your muscles to take over most of the stabilization as opposed to putting all the strain on the ligaments.
10th mountain division 2/22 scout plt 2002-04
1/75th Ranger Regt 2004-2006
Ranger school class 8-05
2008-2011-Q course
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panthersix
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by panthersix »

On May 15th last month I was running a 5km to celebrate or mark my 50th birthday. The first mile was a steep downhill. Something on the outside front near the head of the Fibula gave way near the end of mile 1. It felt unstable so I walked uphill back to the start line.

I could not walk down stairs with my injured knee, it felt extremely unstable. But I kept walking 2 to 3 miles a day. No MRI from the VA, just an x-ray after got to my primary care doc. I had MCL/ACL surgery in 1975 on the same knee, never had problems with it. But about a year ago I began to notice that it would sometimes "give out" going down stairs. I went to the VA then and all the doc did was BS with the Duke intern about how great a job the surgeon did on my MCL/ACL repair.

After about two weeks of the no downstairs limitation, something else snapped or gave way in it and now it feels stable going down stairs. I've forgotten a couple of times while crossing heavy traffic streets that I have bum knee and jogged a bit on it and under stress it feels weird. Sometimes, not often, while going up stairs it'll make a popping noise on every stair.

No pain other than soreness after the original "giving way" on the run, there's never been any swelling. I've done my own diagnosis on the LCL tear. It's really weird that it doesn't hurt anymore and that I can go down stairs on it. It is not as flexible as my other knee when doing quad stretches either. Sometimes it feels like there's a knot superior to the knee cap though.

Weird huh?
Doc Mac
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mortar_guy78
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by mortar_guy78 »

whocares175 wrote:how long ago was your surgery? do you have any of your lateral meniscus left? as for the high impact stuff (running and rucking mainly) try and stay away from those for a little while. concentrate mainly on the elipitical and swimming if you can. if you feel you have to running try using a treadmill with a good incline (running uphill is a better workout and surprisingly lower impact than flat ground). i can tell you popping post surgery is relatively normal. i had a meniscal repair and acl reconstruction done in jan. running hurts and my knee swells as well. i still have some residual swelling that has not fully gone away and i can pretty much get my knee to pop on command but my ortho surgeon (who is a Ranger as well, surprisingly) isn't worried about any of it, so neither am i. as long as the pain stays around the 4-5 level (and i'm assuming more of a constant ache than a sharp pain) it's ok.
i'm also assuming you dont have any restrictions in movement? really hit the balancing exercises and strengthening exercises hard. balancing helps re-build proprioception (which is your body basically knowing where it's parts are automatically, how you know where your little toe is without looking at it). proprioception gets lost post-op along with muscle atrophy due to nerves getting cut and also as a defense mechanism so you aren't feeling the FULL effect of the pain all the time.
Surgery was done in February. I do have some of the lateral meniscus left but not much and what is left is all frayed and torn up according to the doc. I don't have any movement restrictions, but I will do the balancing excercises. I have not run on anything but a treadmill yet. My profile says NO IMPACT in bold letters, but I've been ignoring it just a little bit.
HHC 4/64 AR '97-'99
HHC 1/75 RGR '99-'01
HHC 1/508 ABCT '01-'04
C co, HHC 2/1 IN '04-'07
C co, B co 1/24 IN '07-'11
D co 308th MI '12-'15
7th SFG(A) MICO '15-'18
C co 308th MI '18-Present


Keep your mind in hell and despair not.

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES
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whocares175
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by whocares175 »

panthersix wrote:On May 15th last month I was running a 5km to celebrate or mark my 50th birthday. The first mile was a steep downhill. Something on the outside front near the head of the Fibula gave way near the end of mile 1. It felt unstable so I walked uphill back to the start line.

I could not walk down stairs with my injured knee, it felt extremely unstable. But I kept walking 2 to 3 miles a day. No MRI from the VA, just an x-ray after got to my primary care doc. I had MCL/ACL surgery in 1975 on the same knee, never had problems with it. But about a year ago I began to notice that it would sometimes "give out" going down stairs. I went to the VA then and all the doc did was BS with the Duke intern about how great a job the surgeon did on my MCL/ACL repair.

After about two weeks of the no downstairs limitation, something else snapped or gave way in it and now it feels stable going down stairs. I've forgotten a couple of times while crossing heavy traffic streets that I have bum knee and jogged a bit on it and under stress it feels weird. Sometimes, not often, while going up stairs it'll make a popping noise on every stair.

No pain other than soreness after the original "giving way" on the run, there's never been any swelling. I've done my own diagnosis on the LCL tear. It's really weird that it doesn't hurt anymore and that I can go down stairs on it. It is not as flexible as my other knee when doing quad stretches either. Sometimes it feels like there's a knot superior to the knee cap though.

Weird huh?
while i wouldn't rule out a partial lcl tear it sounds more like a meniscal impingement. basically a tear of your meniscus that rolled onto articular surfaces of the knee. the snap you felt would've been where the flap of meniscus either broke off completely from the rest or rolled back into place. depending on which portion of the mensiscus is torn there can be very little to no swelling, especially at your age, due to the lack of vascularity of the meniscus (only the posterior third actually has a blood supply, the rest basically absorbs the blood from that third). i would visit your doc and get an ortho referall or seeing how you mentioned duke, if you feel like coming to bragg i'll take a look at you myself. theres a few tests i'd have to do to confirm anything.
10th mountain division 2/22 scout plt 2002-04
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whocares175
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by whocares175 »

mortar_guy78 wrote:
whocares175 wrote:how long ago was your surgery? do you have any of your lateral meniscus left? as for the high impact stuff (running and rucking mainly) try and stay away from those for a little while. concentrate mainly on the elipitical and swimming if you can. if you feel you have to running try using a treadmill with a good incline (running uphill is a better workout and surprisingly lower impact than flat ground). i can tell you popping post surgery is relatively normal. i had a meniscal repair and acl reconstruction done in jan. running hurts and my knee swells as well. i still have some residual swelling that has not fully gone away and i can pretty much get my knee to pop on command but my ortho surgeon (who is a Ranger as well, surprisingly) isn't worried about any of it, so neither am i. as long as the pain stays around the 4-5 level (and i'm assuming more of a constant ache than a sharp pain) it's ok.
i'm also assuming you dont have any restrictions in movement? really hit the balancing exercises and strengthening exercises hard. balancing helps re-build proprioception (which is your body basically knowing where it's parts are automatically, how you know where your little toe is without looking at it). proprioception gets lost post-op along with muscle atrophy due to nerves getting cut and also as a defense mechanism so you aren't feeling the FULL effect of the pain all the time.
Surgery was done in February. I do have some of the lateral meniscus left but not much and what is left is all frayed and torn up according to the doc. I don't have any movement restrictions, but I will do the balancing excercises. I have not run on anything but a treadmill yet. My profile says NO IMPACT in bold letters, but I've been ignoring it just a little bit.
ok ima be blunt: STOP RUNNING!!!! having meniscal repair 5 months ago, you'd be able to start running at about 12-16 weeks out (3-4 months) IF you did everything according to the recovery protocol correctly. what you're knee needs is a break. swimming, elipitcals, bikes, UPHILL JOGGING ONLY, are all good cardio exercises and will help to speed up the healing process however, if you're trying to actually run on it on flat ground or downhill especially, you're doing more damage. take it easy. allow your body to heal. things will get better in time. worse case you may be a candidate for meniscal removal. not the preferred way to go but you can still be in combat arms with your knee like that (just dont mind some pain when running that will never go away).
10th mountain division 2/22 scout plt 2002-04
1/75th Ranger Regt 2004-2006
Ranger school class 8-05
2008-2011-Q course
2011-present-10th Special Forces Group (A) Ft. Carson, CO
panthersix
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Re: Torn Meniscus

Post by panthersix »

[/quote]while i wouldn't rule out a partial lcl tear it sounds more like a meniscal impingement. basically a tear of your meniscus that rolled onto articular surfaces of the knee. the snap you felt would've been where the flap of meniscus either broke off completely from the rest or rolled back into place. depending on which portion of the mensiscus is torn there can be very little to no swelling, especially at your age, due to the lack of vascularity of the meniscus (only the posterior third actually has a blood supply, the rest basically absorbs the blood from that third). i would visit your doc and get an ortho referall or seeing how you mentioned duke, if you feel like coming to bragg i'll take a look at you myself. theres a few tests i'd have to do to confirm anything.[/quote]

I might have to come down to Bragg as I can't get into the VA Ortho for a consult. My primary care PA has been battling with them to get me an appt, esp since I've already seen them for this once before, but there is a PA over all consults in Ortho that says since I'm being seen by Rhuematology that I can't be seen by Ortho. Now I've gotten the OIF case worker involved and everyone but this one Ortho PA realizes its and injury and not an illness. I even went to the emergency room at the Durham VA and all I got was a tube of capsacin ointment.
Doc Mac
Ranger Class 11-80
C.Co. WPNS 1/75 79-81
3rd Plt/498th Medevac 81-82
104th LRSD 92-93
422d CA BN (A) 94-97
118th ASOS 02-08
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