AR/M4 vs. AK

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C-MAC
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AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by C-MAC »

Yeah, so I viewed the old thread talking about AK's. Lot's of cursing and verbal bomb throwing- all in good fun of course. :? But I want to reinvigorate this topic for three reasons;

1- I am largely unfamiliar with the AK platform. Mostly because I feel like buying one is supporting the enemy. Yes, I know there are US manufacturers, but this isn't about me. It's about the weapon platform.

2- I have seen debates lately, purported to be from combat vets, espousing the values of an AK over the AR

3- I would like to hear real, unadulterated opinions and learn new profanity

I am primarily an AR/M4 user with some .308/7.62 thrown in for good measure. I recently looked at a CA AES-10B RPK-47. Overall, I am not impressed with anything other than the price and a growing affection for the 7.62 round. It seems rickety, inaccurate and imprecise. Not sure I could count on it in a pinch.

Thoughts?
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by KW Driver »

C-MAC wrote: It seems rickety, inaccurate and imprecise. Not sure I could count on it in a pinch.

Thoughts?
I agree. 200m headshots? wouldn't count on it. 100m even...

simple and bombproof for it's simplicity? absolutely. 70 some odd years of spitting out rounds in the hands of possibly illiterate, ill-trained peasants? there's something to be said for that. that is a quality all it's own.

it will function as advertised every time, with a very minimum of care. it won't snipe out past 300...
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by colt1rgr »

Well if ya listen to guys like Gabe Suarez the AK is "the shit". Of course he saw a niche to make some money and is very happily (and busily I might add) filling that niche. I carried one for much of my time in Iraq, mucho range time with it and more than one "eat this MFer's". Up close and personal, its not a bad platform and a bad ass round. But if the AK is sooooooo bad ass, why did the Russkies change over to 74? I'll tell you why, its HEAVY and inaccurate as a fuck! Unless you do some serious finetuning and even then it will never compete with an M4 for accuracy.

For my money, its AR all the way, anyday. Pastor has a kick ass AR that shoots 7.62x39, all the great AR features with a kick ass (and CHEAP) round. I like it and may add one to my reportoire someday.


I have had AKs, liked them and think every law abiding American (READ "former RANGERS") :wink: should have a folder with several loaded magazines under the seat in their car or in their trunk .................. just in case. :twisted:
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by panthersix »

AK's are perfect for throwing in the closet, never cleaning and having a butt load of ammo for ready to go out to the redneck range :) I like the former USSR pistols too, tokarev's are cheap and fun, and I like P64's too.
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

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colt1rgr wrote:I have had AKs, liked them and think every law abiding American (READ "former RANGERS") :wink: should have a folder with several loaded magazines under the seat in their car or in their trunk .................. just in case. :twisted:
"The AK 47. When you absolutely, positively have to kill every motherfucker in the room!"
I guess that leaves USAF with one of those old Colombian Made, bolt action ZB's. :shock: I might as well be standing there holding my junk. :roll:
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

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panthersix wrote:AK's are perfect for throwing in the closet, never cleaning and having a butt load of ammo for ready to go out to the redneck range :) I like the former USSR pistols too, tokarev's are cheap and fun, and I like P64's too.
I was talking to another shooter over the weekend and he said the exact same thing. He has an AK that gets taken to the range and shoots a few hundred rounds of that crappy Wolf ammo at 20 meters. The weapon literally lives in his trunk and he can't remember the last time it was cleaned. Every once in a while when it jams he does a pogo stick clear and voila- good as new.

I can't remember which Ranger said it about the M4 in another thread. But the statement was basically how the M4 was made for the lowest common denominator- mouth breathing retard. I can't wait to hear who the AK was made for :lol:
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by GoldCoast »

Do your research before you buy one - there is a definite quality difference between makes. I have a shitty Romanian build imported by Century Arms and I am less than impressed with it. I had an Egyptian made AK in Iraq that was awesome. Don't believe the hype. Some are better than others, and they still require maintenance. Different rounds through different barrels yield different results. They're just like any other gun.
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by colt1rgr »

panthersix wrote:AK's are perfect for throwing in the closet, never cleaning and having a butt load of ammo for ready to go out to the redneck range :) I like the former USSR pistols too, tokarev's are cheap and fun, and I like P64's too.

I concur! And here is a little Diddy for us like minded individuals. They are now selling semi-auto only versions of the PPSH-43 SMG for 399.00. These come with 4 x 35 rd magazines and shoots the 7.62x25mm rd. Whats cool about this is this thing, while classified as a carbine is basically a long barrelled pistol that shoots a very bad ass round. The really cool kicker is that 7.62x25mm FMJ ammo is currently going for about $99.75 for a 1,050 rds and $189.42 for 2,100. Thats dirt cheap for a weapon you can cheaply stock ammo for and then throw it into a kit bag in your trunk or under your seat and forget about. I may have to pick one of these up.

Source for these (there are several) can be found in Shotgun News.
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by C-MAC »

colt1rgr wrote:
panthersix wrote:AK's are perfect for throwing in the closet, never cleaning and having a butt load of ammo for ready to go out to the redneck range :) I like the former USSR pistols too, tokarev's are cheap and fun, and I like P64's too.

I concur! And here is a little Diddy for us like minded individuals. They are now selling semi-auto only versions of the PPSH-43 SMG for 399.00. These come with 4 x 35 rd magazines and shoots the 7.62x25mm rd. Whats cool about this is this thing, while classified as a carbine is basically a long barrelled pistol that shoots a very bad ass round. The really cool kicker is that 7.62x25mm FMJ ammo is currently going for about $99.75 for a 1,050 rds and $189.42 for 2,100. Thats dirt cheap for a weapon you can cheaply stock ammo for and then throw it into a kit bag in your trunk or under your seat and forget about. I may have to pick one of these up.

Source for these (there are several) can be found in Shotgun News.
Wow, $399.00? I saw that Military Gun Supply in Fort Worth had PPS-43's for about $699.00.

Yeah and I was feeling pretty good about the $150 I paid for 650 rounds of 5.56 last week. That is, until I saw your post. :(

One more reason to add something that shoots 7.62. Cheapness.
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by C-MAC »

vossman wrote: To say the AK is not good past 100 yards or even 300 yards is plain false. Would you be willing to stand out in the open at 300 yards while someone takes aim at you? 400 yards? Go ahead, I'll get behind a berm.
Some really good data in your complete response. Thanks.

I think the point he was trying to make on the piece quoted above was accuracy of the AK vs. AR. In my limited experience with the AK, if I had one round to make a critical shot at 200 meters using iron sights- I am sticking with the AR. I personally feel comfortable that even with 20 rounds, I would be more likely to make the shot with an AR using less rounds.

I thought that may simply be because of my familiarity with the AR. But it sounds like the AR is more accurate while the AK round+barrel dynamics makes it more lethal over short ranges.

But if you had to carry one weapon to serve multiple purposes (say that 200 meter head shot and CQB)- what would it be? :?
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by RangerX »

C-MAC wrote:
vossman wrote: But if you had to carry one weapon to serve multiple purposes (say that 200 meter head shot and CQB)- what would it be? :?
AR.

Take a look at some of the custom rigs used in 3 gun matches. They frequently face these exact conditions. I was at a 600 yard range the other day and a guy was holding his own with a 16 inch AR with a 10x scope on it. It is of course going to come down to quality of components AND shooter, but in general I would say the options available for the AR surpass those available for the AK. My 2¢.
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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by cams »

Get a .308 on an AR platform, like the CSM has. Better round, better stopping power and your already familiar with the quick breakdown/clearing procedures/jams etc of the AR.

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Re: AR/M4 vs. AK

Post by Flesh Thorn »

I wouldn't mind having one of these custom Saiga 12s ( 12 gauge AK) from Red Jacket Firearms.
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