Ranger school open to CS and CSS

[Parabellum]

Do you call people that are Airborne qualified in the 101st "Paratroopers"?

Opinions are like assholes and you are definitely entitled to have one. In the end I could care less, because I don't have the luxury of being able to toss joe out of my company when he does something that embarasses the unit like Regiment does. That means I have to have leaders who can step up and lead those soldiers. "Ranger qualified" individuals typically (though not always) have a lot of the qualities desired in a leader. For that reason, and the ones I listed above, I'm glad Ranger school is open to CS/CSS.

Don't think I was doubting your abilities as a leader. Not having that option in your unit does suck. I think the whole Army should have a process as easy as our RFS system. Your are definatly right about the qualities of tabbed leadership in the Army. I also agree with you when it comes to CS personnel going to Ranger school as long as it doesn't require a "5 tampons per phase" rule to certian students.

Like I said, the debate can go on and on.

Too me and most members of the Regt the issue is pretty cut and dry.

That doesn't mean that I think less of guys not in the Regt.

[Spartan]

Yeah, they should have a DX rule in the Army where you can get DXed from the Regiment and go serve elsewhere. If you fuck that up too, they convert your MOS to Potatoe Peeler or Grounds Keeper.

[centermass]

I remember the days when a certain Colonel (name withheld) decided if some is good, more is better, went to DA with the concept, recvd their hack on it and away we went with Ranger.... (number withheld)

Once word of this got out, all the speculating started. I saw the writing on the wall and decided to take a wait and see approach. Hmmm, "if some is good, more is better". Away went the Morgan Team, the Worm Pit. (because a certain son of a General had issues with the demeaning nature of such) peer standards were modified, LOM's required wetnursing and the chance to change their minds and rejoin their buddies (even after a hot and a cot) Additional (and I do mean ridiculously additional) "OR" comments on why some dirtbag had the blind leading the blind etc. etc. etc. Paperwork to pass was on the order of about 5 minutes vs "The Theory of Evolution" for those that didn't.

The push was on. Ah yes, let the flood gates open. Numbers, politics-fucking numbers was what it was all about to some. And it would seem that the shear numbers concept would overwhelm the system, overwhelm the instructors and they would pass, and the numbers would grow. BBBBBullshit. If it did anything, it hardened the resolve of not only myself, but most the instructors I knew of. If that meant grinding your teeth on a chainsaw, putting your balls in a vise or being forced to view Farenheit 911 100 times, we owed the Battalions, the Army, our sister services, the unwritten obligation to never waiver, regardless of the numbers, to keep the ranks of the chosen few to the standards of those that came before them, those who went into battle, or who stood on that parade field and exemplified what that title represented. (that coveted, little piece of embroidered cloth gives it away as well)

Yeah, you may have seen some shitbag in Bn, in the Army or somewhere else asking yourself "how did this lowlife oxygen thief ever make it through?" Well, it wasn't through me.

Scroll wearers vs Tab bearers, as the Pastor wrote, can be debated about on and on until this website crumbles. It's not the scroll or the tab that makes the man, it's the man who makes himself what he is. (seen plenty of studs with nothing from the PX emblem gallery, who were worth their weight in gold because they had heart, soul, guts and pure determination to succeed wherever they were at, and at whatever they they were doing)

And now, the flood gates again are about to be opened. Hopefully, "MANDATORY" will be attached to C1, Prerequisite completion of Pre-Ranger training. And hopefully, the resolve of anyone along the lines, who has anything to do with "maintaining a tough, but realistic and meaningful standard" of exactly what an "ARMY RANGER" is, what he exemplifies and all that he represents, does exactly that.

The Gunshow exhibited some uncommon foresight to all of you who have not yet served outside your high speed locations. You've heard it before, and know it exists. Burnout is a fact of life as are the needs of Army, you will eventually PCS to some God forsaken place with legs, remfs, desk jockies and the list goes on. Some of you will be reveered for your scroll, your tab or both. You can also plan that insecurities will arise that will piss you off to no end for the very same. "Fucker thinks he better than everyone else." And you're thinking, what the hell did I do? If you plan on making the Army a career, you can count on it. But to all those jealous mother fuckers, all those doubters and those about to receive the benefits of your wisdom that come along with your knowledge and expertise, do everything you can to impart all that you have learned on to those that seek it, to those that need it and those that deserve it. If you exist for a reason, you owe that much to everyone you come in contact with during your career. For all others, use the e-tool concept.

And finally, as "Tiny Tim" once said "God bless everyone."

Oh, and one more thing:

Yeah, they should have a DX rule in the Army where you can get DXed from the Regiment and go serve elsewhere. If you fuck that up too, they convert your MOS to Potatoe Peeler or Grounds Keeper.

Geez Spartan, is Dan Quayle or blkngt92 doing your spell check?

[Chiron]

Ranger Chiron, I would gladly attend Infantry OSUT before going to Ranger School if it were possible.

Being a CS Soldier (96B, actually), I am feeling this right now.

The big point will become cost of slots wasted. Not that you may or may not be up for that. Remember that combat arms MOS are geared to the difficulties of a leadership course like that more so than CS et all. Nevertheless, it will be up to soldiers like you to prove that the time and $$ will not be wasted. My opinion is that RS should remain
as it is and non-combat arms MOS should not have access. I remember when I went in 1982 we had three airforce CCT and none passed. They told us if anything they gained the experience and will never forget it. In the end you must pass to show that the $$ isn’t wasted. After all the logistic side of all this is what will count in the end. That’s my $ 0.02 worth. Good luck.

[KW Driver]

it was wide open when I went through. Saw an 88M quit during Darby Queen, "cause this is bullshit", the day after he said he'd never quit, blah, blah, blah.

saw plenty of 11B's quit too.

had a computer programmer from the 82nd, and he was in his 30's. got hurt during 3 different SFAS's. he came right out and said I don't know shit, I need your help. Batt boys will be my RTO and you better tell me what to do, and what I'm forgetting when I'm in charge. In return, when i'm not in charge, I will do whatever you tell me to, whenever you tell me, and I'll carry everything you pack on me without complaining. He was a man of his word. He got recycled in MTNs with my Rgr buddy, and graduated the next class.

It's always about the man. As long as standards don't change, it's all for the good of the army. I also think everyone must pass a Pre-Rgr for a school date.

[AirborneFox]

Last year my BN's SIGO (Signal Officer Captain) got a waiver from the CG of Division to go to PRC and Ranger School (prior to the new policy). He smoked not only PRC but also Ranger School. I originally questioned why Combat Support and Combat Service Support soldiers should be able to go to Ranger School. But after seeing our Battalion's Signal Officer go through Ranger School I agree with the fact that CS & CSS officers and soldiers assigned to Infantry Battalion's should be allowed to attend Ranger School. I am in a battalion were every officer and NCO are expected to be Ranger qualified. I was very proud of my BN's SIGO in his quest to become Ranger Qualified even though he didn't feel the pressure that an Infantry Officer would have felt. He wanted to go to make himself a more complete paratrooper in our battalion and to learn more about what we go through. He could have easily sat in his office and ensured that our commo worked alright but he took it upon himself to challenge himself to become a better officer and leader. He has led the way for several other "soft MOS's" assigned to our Airborne Infantry BN to challenge themselves to complete Ranger School. Just today we had one of our cooks from the DFAC graduate PRC and is heading to Ranger School. I have no doubt that he will do not only well, but graduate. He is also in the process of reclassing to the Infantry. This "spoon" has set a great example. Most of our DFAC cooks work on a shift basis in the DFAC and do PT on their own which tends to lead to many of the on the "fat boy" program. But this guy does PT with the Scout Platoon on a daily basis.

By just one of our "soft MOS" officers earning his tab he has set an example for all of the rest of the non infantry in our BN to break the mold and work towards becoming a better all around trooper and earning their tab. I think it has had a great impact on our infantry task force.