BCT/OSUT/AIT personnel problems

[FireFinder]

I can't help but think back to Feb. 1984 when I was at Ft. Sill for BCT/AIT and try and remember if we had the same types of people that these young studs are running into today as they join the fraternity of soldiers.

I recall one guy in my platoon in BCT that was a shitbird, he lost a boot between reception and inprocessing, and was constantly drawing the ire of our Drill Sergeants. Another guy, named Maguire, was possibly the dumbest human being I had ever met. I can remember all of us getting smoked once because the smokers were field stripping their butts and putting the butts in the drain of our "fish pond" outside the barracks, which caused it to flood when it rained.

I certainly don't think we had anyone go AWOL, or order a pizza, or anything remotely like what these young men at OSUT have related to us in their letters. I could just be getting old(er) and have forgotten about it.

Is this a generational problem? I mean, from what I am reading, I draw the conclusion that even in our VOLUNTEER military, some people seem to not want to be there. Why the fuck sign up? Why waste a slot that could go to some guy that wants to be a stud, and has the personal courage and motivation to succeed? It almost seems like despite the fact that we have an ALL VOLUNTEER military, we have some folks with a DRAFTEE mentality making it into the system, or is it just the immaturity of today's youth?

[the_machine]

I can't help but think back to Feb. 1984 when I was at Ft. Sill for BCT/AIT and try and remember if we had the same types of people that these young studs are running into today as they join the fraternity of soldiers.

I recall one guy in my platoon in BCT that was a shitbird, he lost a boot between reception and inprocessing, and was constantly drawing the ire of our Drill Sergeants. Another guy, named Maguire, was possibly the dumbest human being I had ever met. I can remember all of us getting smoked once because the smokers were field stripping their butts and putting the butts in the drain of our "fish pond" outside the barracks, which caused it to flood when it rained.

I certainly don't think we had anyone go AWOL, or order a pizza, or anything remotely like what these young men at OSUT have related to us in their letters. I could just be getting old(er) and have forgotten about it.

Is this a generational problem? I mean, from what I am reading, I draw the conclusion that even in our VOLUNTEER military, some people seem to not want to be there. Why the fuck sign up? Why waste a slot that could go to some guy that wants to be a stud, and has the personal courage and motivation to succeed? It almost seems like despite the fact that we have an ALL VOLUNTEER military, we have some folks with a DRAFTEE mentality making it into the system, or is it just the immaturity of today's youth?

I'd classify it as the immaturity of today's youth. When I first went through Basic, we had a bunch of shit-heads run off to the mini p.x. at Sand Hill and come back with walkman's, candy and all sorts of shit and when they got busted...let's say that it wasn't pretty.

I think the closet thing we had to anyone going U.A. was the firewatch and his buddy sneaking off base and getting caught by the M.P.'s, the poor bastards were locked up in front of the C.O in front of everyone and Then the D.I.'s had fun with them.

[VAK]

I think it is a generational problem but also a problem in how we're dealing with this generation... If you hear the stories of how discipline is done now it's nothing like it was then. I know that it's nothing like it was when I went into the service, certainly nothing like it was when I hit the Air Force's 1st Special Operation's Wing (Now AFSOC's home).

Then when I left the military and became a police officer and saw the types of recruits we were getting I was stunned. Only to be more and more stunned as the years wandered slowly by. And still as they slowly slipped by, the rules regarding how this younger generation was dealt with became looser and looser. I think until it is only when we crack down and make the pendelum swing back the other way will we start to see a change....

The same thing in the military, in the home and in society. It is only when this generation and those to follow are forced to be accountable will we see some sort of change in the generations to follow and this behavior models that are all but abhorent.

Good observation bb....

Godspeed,
usaftacp

[Slowpoke]

Back in the "Olden Days" of the draft, it was the draftees who were generally more squared away than the inlistees. I may seem odd, but I think that the draftees were generally a little older and had a little more maturity. Most of the fucktards that I remember were starry eyed, 17 year old enlistees who became disillusioned quickly. Most of the draftees seemed resigned to make the best of a bad situation. All of my BCT company at Ft. Polk were Airborne volunteers, so that may have had a bearing on the draftees attitudes that I was with. I do remember some individuals just as fucked up as our DEPs have described, Stupidity is timeless.

[FireFinder]

Ranger Slowpoke,

From what I have read, your experience with the draftees (who volunteered for Airborne) is normal, i.e. they chose to make the best out of their situation, and volunteered to be with other like-minded individuals. This is what I would expect based on the things I have read like Band of Brothers, Currahee!, Combat Jump, We Were Soldiers, etc. Hell, even Heinlein deals with draftee mentality in his book Starship Troopers.

I have a hard time understanding how/why today's youth are the way they are. Are the youngsters not getting proper information as to what is expected of them? Too much TV, Video Games, etc.? A romanticized, Stripes-like expectation of military life? A PC-driven, coddle-thy-children, spare the rod style of parenting? A good beating when you fuck up as a kid will certainly reinforce the notion that there are consequences for your actions (that must have been what my parents thought ).

I certainly had my share of being a fuckup when I went in, I was 17 and didn't know shit, but I did what I was told to do. If I had to deal with a bunch of slugs like these kids are describing, I would probably burst a vessel in my brain yelling at them.

[AngryPistols]

Excellent advice there DG, thanks for taking the time to post it.

Angry

[McD]

Sorry for nothing DG. That is an excellent post and (I think) really touches on the heart of the problem.

Thanks for sharing your insight.

[Steadfast]

I can't help but think back to Feb. 1984 when I was at Ft. Sill for BCT/AIT and try and remember if we had the same types of people that these young studs are running into today as they join the fraternity of soldiers.

I recall one guy in my platoon in BCT that was a shitbird, he lost a boot between reception and inprocessing, and was constantly drawing the ire of our Drill Sergeants. Another guy, named Maguire, was possibly the dumbest human being I had ever met. I can remember all of us getting smoked once because the smokers were field stripping their butts and putting the butts in the drain of our "fish pond" outside the barracks, which caused it to flood when it rained.

I certainly don't think we had anyone go AWOL, or order a pizza, or anything remotely like what these young men at OSUT have related to us in their letters. I could just be getting old(er) and have forgotten about it.

Is this a generational problem? I mean, from what I am reading, I draw the conclusion that even in our VOLUNTEER military, some people seem to not want to be there. Why the fuck sign up? Why waste a slot that could go to some guy that wants to be a stud, and has the personal courage and motivation to succeed? It almost seems like despite the fact that we have an ALL VOLUNTEER military, we have some folks with a DRAFTEE mentality making it into the system, or is it just the immaturity of today's youth?

I take exception to your statement bberkley, "DRAFTEE mentality." I have a question? Were you drafted or did you enlist? I know the answer, you joined since the draft ended ten years before your service. So how could you possibly know what the draft mentality is? Is this DRAFT mentality written in FM of the U. S. Army that you read. Oh perhaps you read it in Beetle Bailey or Sad Sack comics. Straighten up your thinking because it is an insult to men like myself that were drafted into the military and did their jobs. I know, I did my job. Remember it has nothing to do with DRAFT mentality if the individual enlisted. A fuck up is a fuck up -FUCKING PERIOD. Get your facts straight. No one is in the military that did not voluntarily join. There are no DRAFTEE's. You don't know Jacque on the subject.

As a matter of fact I wrote an article on just this subject on another site a few days ago. Perhaps you should read the toilet paper report titled "Were you drafted into the Ranger's?"

http://www.airborneranger.com/start/mod ... opic&t=241



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I am not mad at you Brian, just get your facts straight.

[Ranger2]

I have a buddy who was a full bird and flew copters in Nam. He served 33 years before retiring in the mid 90's. He has always told me that he thought the army was better with the draft. While it may be more professional now he said the draftees kept the army honest because they weren't planning on staying so they weren't afraid to speak their mind. He also said that you never knew what you were going to get but many times he said he ended up with someone with a Harvard degree or a shit hot mechanic who would have never joined otherwise.

I was surprised when he said that the army was better with a draft but he assures me it was.

In fact after the reunion I told him that I was with some 173rd and 4th ID LRRPs and he said he inserted and picked some of you guys up. He said the LZ's were usually cold going in but always hot coming out. He had the highest respect for you guys.

Ranger2

[FireFinder]

Ranger Steadfast,

I meant no disrespect to you or anyone else that was drafted into service.

You are correct, I have ZERO experience in the draft, or being drafted. All of my knowledge on the subject is from the military history I've read.
My clouded views on the draft was that it did pull in very many people who didn't want to be there, didn't care what it was they did, felt no allegiance to a unit, cause, mission, etc.

I didn't mean it as an insult to you or your service.

[Steadfast]

I am not insulted bberkley. No apology is necessary to me. In my short two year stint I feel I achieved much. My agenda was always full. I did my two years and got out. I never would have joined had I not been drafted. Today I am proud of my service to Uncle Sam. I support my country and support our troops no matter where they are.

Find another weakness instead of draftee mentality. hahaha That will make me forget this shit.

[Silverback]

Redundancy will be the death of us all.

http://www.airborneranger.com/start/mod ... opic&t=218

[Slowpoke]

Like Doorgunner said, those of us in our generation have only ourselves to blame. The biggest differences I can see in these kids are; 1) lack of respect for anyone or anything. And 2) they are, for the most part, pussies. They whine and complain about everything.

Many of the kids today (Jesus, I sound like MY dad) were raised by women, with little or no male influence, and it shows. Women have trained these boys to be kinder and gentler, and pussified an entire generation. They never were trained to be men. I'm no woman hater, but I do beleive men and women are very different. Children were not meant to be raised by women alone.