Who were the greatest military leaders?

[DrD]

Thank you, Ranger Jim. I have included your and Ranger Silverback's names next to his, so that when I circle back on this for more information, I know where to head. I hope that is ok.

Best;
DrD

[Silverback]

Thank you, Ranger Jim. I have included your and Ranger Silverback's names next to his, so that when I circle back on this for more information, I know where to head. I hope that is ok.

Best;
DrD

Might as well remove me. I let people tell their own stories and I have nothing to share.

[DrD]

Thank you, TC204! I have added his name.

Ranger Silverback... yup, I'd better check myself on that. I am sorry. Thank you for your help/thoughts.

Best;
DrD

[Ranger Bill]

One issue with identifying who rank among the greatest military leaders of all time is narrowing down the word "leaders." One definition is a troop leader, the man who stands in the front and beckons "Follow Me!' which is the motto of the U.S. Army Infantry. Most often this man is a corporal, sergeant, staff sergeant, platoon sergeant, lieutenant or captain. Seldom is this man a general officer.

Another definition is the commander orchestrating the overall effort, which more often than not is concerned with strategic operations, logistics, administration and since the invention of the printing press, public relations. Most often this man is a general. Seldom is this man anything else. My opinion is that these commanders are actually executive managers and not leaders of men in battle per se. It should be rare that these commanders are directly involved in fighting and if they are, usually their CP is being overrun or they are foolishly taking risks they should not.

The premise of introducing new tactics clouds the issue even more. New tactics range from the first leader to arm his troops with clubs and rocks and use the cave as a defensive position, the introduction of the first castle with a moat, the phalanx, the cavalry charge, boiling oil, attacking civilian targets, the use of propaganda, poison gas, stand off distances going back to the long bow, deception before and after the Trojan Horse, the use of armor from shields to the tank, aerial war, guerilla war, and this short list could go on and on.

So picking the few leaders and the tactics deemed to have had the most impact on the history of warfare may well be nothing more than an entertaining academic exercise that anybody can intelligently put forth a credible counter argument. It may well be a fool’s mission. Lots of discussion can take place and opinions will vary. The end result, whatever it is, will only hold true for those who made the choice, narrowed the parameters as they saw fit, and made subjective choices. Literally the field of candidates is endless.

But toward the effort, I offer Francis Marion and Robert Rogers. Both led from the front and developed and modern era guerilla warfare tactics that are still followed in various forms. They also had a bit to do with establishing the groundwork for the U.S. Army Rangers.

[Jenny Lynn]

Dr. D,
Thanks for this post I have been researching up on the men that the Rangers and other Veterans (edited to add "other Veterans", no disrespect meant) have posted names of in this thread, wow what a great way to dive into US Military History.

I may have one to give you but I have to find out which World War II General it was that my maternal grandfather shared stories of as I grew up, I was the oldest of his grandchildren and he was one of the only people that could get me to sit still when I was little.

I wish I would have listened more intently when he repeated some of his funnier experiences, all the WWII general's names are spinning around in my head and I cannot remember which one it was. I know gramps would have followed this man anywhere, he respected and trusted him, my grandfather respected few people and trusted even less that alone is enough in my book.

What I can share is that after some very difficult situations (stories for another day) this General took my grandfather under his wing. I couldn't believe when my mom told me gramps was this General's driver at the end of his tour of duty I'd say probably around 1944 to 1945 in the United Kingdom, gramps enlisted on 12/18/1942 in the Army Air Corps as a warrant officer. Mom only found out the week before my grandfather died when she stayed by his bedside that week. Gramps only really shared what he saw and witnessed when serving during WWII during that last week of his life on his deathbed,

As a kid I could tell there was a lot brewing behind his intense blue eyes and knew there were reasons he seemed distant most of the time.
Damn I wish I would have asked more questions growing up but he seemed to be someplace else, deep within his memories when telling his stories. This post is helping me make the call to my aunt and mom to get them to send me a copy of his DD214 pronto. I've tried to piece his tour together from his enlistment date, his serial number etc but I have found nothing so I pray his DD214 will provide the missing details I need.

Jenny

[DrD]

So picking the few leaders and the tactics deemed to have had the most impact on the history of warfare may well be nothing more than an entertaining academic exercise that anybody can intelligently put forth a credible counter argument. It may well be a fool’s mission...

Ranger Bill;

It may very well be. I put the probability of creating something reasonably useful at 5%. Add in to that there are numerous other entities trying to do the same thing, so we have replication of work.

You would shake your head... but I am ok with that. And so are the other folks. 5% still means it is possible. And, we won't try to cover everything... we will wide net the info, then narrow down to what is most possible (e.g. guerrilla warfare in forest settings... whatever). I think folks are happy to work on something that *might* help someone... rather than just go into a dusty journal that only academics read.

Realistically, it may be that we are creating an add-on or a jumping off point for another mind to run with. That is also fine. The goal remains the same, no matter who makes it happen. :D

Thank you for the additional people to add to the list. Marion and Rogers seem to be favorites amongst a few folks.

Cheers;
DrD

[DrD]

Jenny;

They both sound like an amazing men. :D I would love to hear about them.

Cheers;
Shana

[Caruthers]

There are LOTS of people doing some form of this thread all over the internet already.

http://www.carpenoctem.tv/military/intro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 645AA2Wvs4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _98143837/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.gunslot.com/blog/generals-to ... ime-w-pics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just to show a few..........

I know you are using our input.

But like the other Rangers have put forward; It will be a Who's who of generals and Political leaders..........not the men IMTing. As the title of the thread suggests.........military leaders..........not team, squad, PSG/PL, 1SG/CO, SMG/Maj, CSMG/LTC.......... By far, in my humble and modest experience, Not a single thing can get done with out the whole hearted support of these leaders under the Greatest military leaders. What made most of great military leaders - great; was letting loose of the minds and tactics of their command to pursue the fastest and most efficient way to conduct tactics.

[DrD]

But like the other Rangers have put forward; It will be a Who's who of generals and Political leaders..........not the men IMTing. As the title of the thread suggests.........military leaders..........not team, squad, PSG/PL, 1SG/CO, SMG/Maj, CSMG/LTC.......... By far, in my humble and modest experience, Not a single thing can get done with out the whole hearted support of these leaders under the Greatest military leaders. What made most of great military leaders - great; was letting loose of the minds and tactics of their command to pursue the fastest and most efficient way to conduct tactics.

Ranger Caruthers;

Thank you for the links!

I hear you and the other Rangers. You might think I wasn't listening, but I was. Really. I need to have the input of team/squad/SGM/etc. Got it. I will be working on that and tactics next! :D

Shana

[Jim]

I offer Francis Marion and Robert Rogers. Both led from the front and developed and modern era guerilla warfare tactics that are still followed in various forms. They also had a bit to do with establishing the groundwork for the U.S. Army Rangers.

Rogers did lead Rangers in the French & Indian war. However, by the time of the American Revolution he had become far less effective. He was spurned by the Continental Congress; so he raised a few chicken-thieves who laid waste to portions of Long Island until he sailed off to England -- but not before he helped capture Nathan Hale. On the other hand he did train a number of patriots who later helped lead the Continental Army. some of which were:
John Stark
Israel Putnam
Moses Hazen
William Stark

[Silverback]

I offer Francis Marion and Robert Rogers. Both led from the front and developed and modern era guerilla warfare tactics that are still followed in various forms. They also had a bit to do with establishing the groundwork for the U.S. Army Rangers.

Rogers did lead Rangers in the French & Indian war. However, by the time of the American Revolution he had become far less effective. He was spurned by the Continental Congress; so he raised a few chicken-thieves who laid waste to portions of Long Island until he sailed off to England. On the other hand he did train a number of patriots who later helped lead the Continental Army.

Did you mean "spurned" ?

[Jim]

I offer Francis Marion and Robert Rogers. Both led from the front and developed and modern era guerilla warfare tactics that are still followed in various forms. They also had a bit to do with establishing the groundwork for the U.S. Army Rangers.

Rogers did lead Rangers in the French & Indian war. However, by the time of the American Revolution he had become far less effective. He was spurned by the Continental Congress; so he raised a few chicken-thieves who laid waste to portions of Long Island until he sailed off to England. On the other hand he did train a number of patriots who later helped lead the Continental Army.

Did you mean "spurned" ?

I did.

[K.Ingraham]

General Georgi Konstantinovich Zhukov.

Overall, the most distinguished senior leader in the allied armies of WW2.
Greatest level of success with the broadest range of responsibilities carried by any of the allied military leaders, not to mention that he had to be concerned for his life not only from Hitler, but from his own CoC as well.
A subtle and clever leader when he could afford to be, a ruthless driver when he had to be. Under his leadership, the Soviet armies matched the nazis point for point in the operational arts and national strategy. Only in minor tactics (bn & below) were the Soviets outmatched by the Germans. But at that level in that war, minor tactics don't matter when your army group is being fed to the hogs.
Zhukov's armies destroyed Hitler, ours were the supporting cast. Sixty years of cold-war bias and national ignorance will not alter that fact of history.

[Torleif]

Field Marshal Mannerheim and Gen. Heinz Guderian comes to mind when reading this topic heading..
Both were tactical innovators of sorts and both succeeded with their mission.
Well Guderian succeded with his tactics initially anyways, if anything negative is to be said about him he didn´t adapt his tactics according to mission(s) and equipment.
On the other hand it´s hard to tell how much of these failiurs to adapt the tactics were down to him and how much were down the Adolf.

MHO.
//T.