Have you read Starship Troopers?

[FireFinder]

I suggested this book as something for a newbie to this board to read. I had never read it until recently, despite my affinity for Science Fiction, I had only read 1 Heinlein book (Friday), and mostly read stuff by David Drake, Jerry Pournelle, and Fred Saberhagen amongst others.

I really didn't have much intention of reading it after seeing that abomination of a movie that was made with the same title.

I bought it one afternoon, and when I got home I read the entire thing, and then gave it to my 11 year old to read. It took him a couple of months as his tastes for fiction are what most can expect from a 5th grader raised on Nintendo and Pokemon. Now he is reading Space Cadet by Heinlein.

Anyways, back to my question....

I really enjoyed reading this book. If you have read it, tell me what you got out of it. I think it could make for a great thread.

When I was in 5th grade, my taste in books were along the veins of "30 Seconds over Tokyo", of course we didn't have but 3 channels and a B/W TV, and Pong hadn't even been invented yet......

[Vee]

Excellent book.

Especially considering that it was written so long ago.

Movie sucked.

Try "Stranger in a Strange Land" by same author.

[FireFinder]

Ranger V-Rod:

Don't the hippies have some affinity for that title?

ST got Heinlein labeled as a fascist. I for one think many of the ideas presented in that book have extraordinary merit.

[Vee]

Ranger V-Rod:

Don't the hippies have some affinity for that title?

ST got Heinlein labeled as a fascist. I for one think many of the ideas presented in that book have extraordinary merit.

It's a hippie book for sure....but incredibly entertaining.

The themes in "Starhip Troopers" are extraordinary to be sure.

How about "Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card? HIGHLY HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!!!

[Steadfast]

Catch-22 author Joseph Heller also wrote a play called, "Peace in New Haven", I was just thinking about it that this book and the DEP's & their relationship towards Rangers' is similar & are alike.

[Ivory Gates]

Paratrooper bberkley, I thought that Starship Troopers was an excellent book, both in its general storyline and in the author's opinions on the meaning and value of citizenship. While I would not totally agree with the citizenship requirements that the government of the novel placed on its inhabitants, I could definitly appreciate the view that a true citizen takes personal responsibility for the well being of their country. If any DEPs have some free time on their hands this summer, I would recommend this book, its not very long and offers some very interesting views on a number of issues that we will soon be facing in the military.

[FireFinder]

Gates,

I feel that this is one of the key points about Citizen status:

Only those people who actually care about their fellow man, as demonstrated by a willingness to die for them, have adequately demonstrated that they are fit to serve society.

There are many others. Discipline much like Ranger Creeping Death discusses here: http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4066

Do you recall the MI recruit that struck SGT Zim and was Courts Martialed?

How about the trouble Rico got into that resulted in his flogging for not following orders?

How about him saying he would rather have an unguarded flank if there wasn't another MI trooper that had "been through the same training" as himself to be there?

How about perseverance? How about how hard he had to work, and his constant self-deriding assessment of himself?

He never quit.

BTW, bberkley, bb, or berk is just fine.

[Ivory Gates]

Gates,

I feel that this is one of the key points about Citizen status:

Only those people who actually care about their fellow man, as demonstrated by a willingness to die for them, have adequately demonstrated that they are fit to serve society.

bberkley, I agree with this, and I touched on this in my first post saying that in this story citizens must work for the benefit of their country, though what you wrote fleshes this idea out more.

As you point out in your examples below, disclpine issues are also emphasized in the novel, and I am surprised at how well Heinlien seemed to grasp military discipline, as I do not believe he ever served, although I could be wrong on this.

There are many others. Discipline much like Ranger Creeping Death discusses here: http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4066

Do you recall the MI recruit that struck SGT Zim and was Courts Martialed?

I do, and this incident in the story started out along the same lines as Ranger Creeping Death's story, although the fictional recruit handled the situation in the worst possible way, while Ranger Creeping Death demonstrated discipline and self-control required for a Ranger, or for any soldier in that type of situation. In combat behaving as the recruit did could have easily resulted in the death or injury of himself or his fellow soldiers, and that is before he hit his Sergeant.

How about the trouble Rico got into that resulted in his flogging for not following orders?

In this instance Rico's decision to cut corners in the exercise resulted in the simulated death of some of his fellow soldiers due to his inattention to detail. All of the Rangers and Veterans on this board refer to the necessity of attention to detail and to complete devotion to the task at hand, and Rico's screw up demonstrated the possible outcome of handling a situation in a half assed manner.

How about him saying he would rather have an unguarded flank if there wasn't another MI trooper that had "been through the same training" as himself to be there?

Heinlien points out the level of of trust and devotion the M.I. soldiers had to each other and to their units, and Rico would not want to serve alongside any other soldiers, except for those who he knew had proven themselves to be competent and able to work as a team. In combat, Rico wants someone at his side who has had to go through the same things he has, and is able to pull his own weight, otherwise the integrity of the unit will fail.

How about perseverance? How about how hard he had to work, and his constant self-deriding assessment of himself?

Rico demonstrated his determination to attain his goals in both basic training and again when he was at their version of OCS. In basic he had to stick it out through the tough physical training he received as well as the severe lessons in discipline that pushed him mentally and emotionally. At OCS he showed his willingness to do what it took to improve his weaknessess, such as all the extra work he put in to math because of his low level of ability in that area. There are many other examples such as these in the story but these give a quick glimpse of the work and drive he demonstrated.

bberkley, I am not sure if you just asked about these parts of the book retorically or not, but here is what I took from them. I hope I did not come off as a know it all or as having typed a bunch of useless rambling. I am not a soldier yet, and what I took from the listed examples may be off the mark, as I have not personally experienced any of this yet.

[FireFinder]

Gates,

OUTFUCKINGSTANDING!

Those are some of the reasons I suggested this book to a Newt.

Excellent job, this is exactly the kind of response I had hoped to elicit with this thread.

Heinlein was a US Naval Academy Graduate, Class of 1929.

http://www.heinleinsociety.org/rah/hist ... polis.html

[Apollo]

I suggested this book as something for a newbie to this board to read. I had never read it until recently, despite my affinity for Science Fiction, I had only read 1 Heinlein book (Friday), and mostly read stuff by David Drake, Jerry Pournelle, and Fred Saberhagen amongst others.

I really didn't have much intention of reading it after seeing that abomination of a movie that was made with the same title.

I bought it one afternoon, and when I got home I read the entire thing, and then gave it to my 11 year old to read. It took him a couple of months as his tastes for fiction are what most can expect from a 5th grader raised on Nintendo and Pokemon. Now he is reading Space Cadet by Heinlein.

Anyways, back to my question....

I really enjoyed reading this book. If you have read it, tell me what you got out of it. I think it could make for a great thread.

When I was in 5th grade, my taste in books were along the veins of "30 Seconds over Tokyo", of course we didn't have but 3 channels and a B/W TV, and Pong hadn't even been invented yet......

It is a most excellant book. I have read it 3x over and am going to read it a 4th for my senior thesis. Space Cadet is another good one (that was my first taste of Heinlein's literary style).
There are many aspects to this book that I believe one could take away life lessons from. There is an underlying emphisis on Civil Service. I like how it shows that in some ways the best leaders are former Soldiers who have served in the battles and know what they are getting into. Another theme is comraderie. There are many instances where this is shown throughout the book. In the first chapter to the break out of the bugs towards the end of the book.
It is an all around BADASS book.
---Jon
*Edited to add* Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow are two other AWESOME BOOKS!!!

[Ivory Gates]

Thanks bberkley, it was no problem.

That was an interesting link, I had no idea Heinlein went to the naval academy, it does explain how he came up with some of his ideas.

[Who Do?]

I suggested this book as something for a newbie to this board to read.

I beleive I was one of the newbies you suggested it to. ONE HELL OF A BOOK. I liked everything about it, way too many numbers in it, but what I liked most about it was Mr. Dubois' outlook on life/society. He made outstanding statements which i beleive apply perfectly to life today.

Thank you bberkley for the outstanding read.