Regarding the disconnect between the military and civilians

LEROY · Post by **LEROY** » September 8th, 2008, 11:05 am

I fight for the man standing next to me, in my truck, on my team and in my platoon. Not for my kids or my family. Nor the douchebags walking down the street saying "death to America." Only the men who stand ready to do violence on their behalf. If my men don't make it home a part of me never makes it home!!!

Sleepy Doc · Post by **Sleepy Doc** » September 8th, 2008, 11:25 am

My older brother and I are about as polar opposite as you can get. I still believe in the righteousness of our country, even if I disagree with the leadership sometimes. I get pissed when people don't respect the flag or national anthem.. that kind of shit

While I was in Battalion my brother was running the Ct office of Greenpeace. While home on leave I got into an animated discussion with a friend of his at a party. This long haired hippie fag was giving me a ration of shit, calling me baby killer (my never having seen day one of combat), nazi puppet for the government, you name it.

Rather than let my temper get the better of me, I waited until he was done. I then cut him off speechless by saying, "Look, it's because I do what I do, that you can do what You do."

Whether he believed it or not, I give a fuck, but it was and is how I feel about it.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » September 8th, 2008, 11:58 am

Like a lot of folks, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them? Please under stand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their ass, doing drugs, while I work... Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check ? Something has to change in this country -- and soon

Sleepy Doc · Post by **Sleepy Doc** » September 8th, 2008, 1:17 pm

Jim wrote:Like a lot of folks, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them? Please under stand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their ass, doing drugs, while I work... Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check ? Something has to change in this country -- and soon

That is a damn good idea.. never happen though. ACLU would call it assumption of guilt, profiling or some equally fucked up shit..

rgrokelley · Post by **rgrokelley** » September 8th, 2008, 3:15 pm

rgrpuck wrote: I was raised to belive that a Woman is deffined by motherhood, Men are deffined by trial of combat.

What dumbass told you that?

oh....

never mind

Oto-Man · Post by **Oto-Man** » September 8th, 2008, 10:29 pm

(Drinking is an understatement...please dont anyone get their nickers in a swivet over the following statements.......) That being said.......

Disconnect between Military and Civilian?

There is a complete and utter disconnect between military/prior military and the civilian population.

Always has been.....Always will be.

My sig line came off the right wall of the CQ entrance on the B Co Barracks....

Rangers,

Men who have fought and died that lesser men be free to cry peace...when there is none...

I have no idea who the Ranger is that drew that picture, and put those words on that wall...what I do know is that 18 years later...they are on the wall in my "man cave" (home office).

I love my country...I love the people of my country...My fat ass would go today if I was the best we could send...

This is one of the few times I will agree AND disagree with Andy...but only to a point....I would have serverd with or without the support of the American Civilians....I really didn't and Don't care about that opinion when it comes to War....

Warriors are Warriors and Sheep are Sheep. Sheep don't get to make this call. And warriors always get the call...to protect the sheep...worthy or not...the job is to protect...not to judge...As far as I am concerned, Fight for the Flag, Fight for the People, Fight for the man to your left or right....if you are called...FIGHT...

I went into the Army for myself first and my country second...I left the Ranger Battalion with a strong country first attitude...I still have that...but I have drawn a HUGE distiction between country and government...

And I no longer respect the fucking sheep the way I did...My dumb ass would still fight for them...but nowadays I would much rather have the freedom to pick who I fight for AND WITH...and I get that as a former military cilivilian...

We are the Warriors...we have to protect the meek...to a point...when that point gets pushed to the rediculous...we just need to gather together and protect one another....

I am now stepping away from the keyboard....

Silverback · Post by **Silverback** » September 9th, 2008, 6:24 am

I believe we (former service members) tend to assign ourselves a little too much importance. I am thankful for the time I spent in the Army and I enjoyed it (most of the time) but I do not hold myself above any man or woman.

I do not expect people to thank me for my service and to tell the truth it makes me uncomfortable when the topic comes up, I usually reply "You're welcome and I wouldn't have done it if I was expected to do it for free".

We did what we did...because it needed doing. None of us chose to serve based on the applause we thought it would bring.

We all become civilians sooner or later.

rgrpuck · Post by **rgrpuck** » September 9th, 2008, 6:54 am

Silverback wrote:.

We all become civilians sooner or later.

No, some will be forever remembered as the 20 year old soldier they were at the time of thier death......

They are soldiers forever. Whether it was at Hot gates, chargeing across the that long deadly space at Gettysburg, climbing a clif at Point du Hoc or walking the streets of Ramadi, they are chisled into the indelable granate that is history.

That in my mind is the huge difference. We all know names that live forever. They never grow old as we do. Civilians have no concept at all.

Silverback · Post by **Silverback** » September 9th, 2008, 7:30 am

rgrpuck wrote:We all know names that live forever. They never grow old as we do. Civilians have no concept at all.

We can ruminate about the cost of warfare and the friends we have lost or the mentors who have never been alive during our service, but the fact remains the reason we serve is in the hope that our children won't have to.

RangerX · Post by **RangerX** » September 9th, 2008, 8:56 am

Silverback wrote:
rgrpuck wrote:We all know names that live forever. They never grow old as we do. Civilians have no concept at all.
We can ruminate about the cost of warfare and the friends we have lost or the mentors who have never been alive during our service, but the fact remains the reason we serve is in the hope that our children won't have to.

Nail. Head.

Whenever I meet some cheesedick who asks stupid questions like "did you kill anyone", I have to breath slowly and explain to them that the last thing most soldiers wants is War. It sends them in to a mental tailspin, usually requiring great philosophical explanations.

I never considered myself to be the type that spoils for a fight. I tend to avoid them if possible. When conflict does occur, I have always been of the mindset that you make sure your opponent seriously regrets starting the conflagration in the first place. I call it "Self Defense By Utter Annihilation".

RangerJurena · Post by **RangerJurena** » September 9th, 2008, 10:07 am

Silverback wrote:I believe we (former service members) tend to assign ourselves a little too much importance. I am thankful for the time I spent in the Army and I enjoyed it (most of the time) but I do not hold myself above any man or woman.

I do not expect people to thank me for my service and to tell the truth it makes me uncomfortable when the topic comes up, I usually reply "You're welcome and I wouldn't have done it if I was expected to do it for free".

We did what we did...because it needed doing. None of us chose to serve based on the applause we thought it would bring.

We all become civilians sooner or later.

And here I thought he was just a big shit stirring Gorilla..

I agree with this 100%. I'm no better than the guys in my office, but you can bet I don't socialize with them. We don't drink beer together, BBQ together, hell I barely give them the time of day. My wife and I are a miserable lot, her being with me since RIP, we have nothing in common with the civilian populace and our only friends are either still in or retirees somewhere.

When asked about "what I did", my typical response is " I was an Infantryman". For the clueless office workers anything else creates a slew of retarded questions that I just don't have the patience to answer.

As for the last sentence...be thankful you chose later versus sooner.

Silverback · Post by **Silverback** » September 9th, 2008, 10:13 am

RangerJurena wrote:I agree with this 100%. I'm no better than the guys in my office, but you can bet I don't socialize with them. We don't drink beer together, BBQ together, hell I barely give them the time of day. My wife and I are a miserable lot, her being with me since RIP, we have nothing in common with the civilian populace and our only friends are either still in or retirees somewhere.

Brother,
I truly have "No friends" outside of the people I have encountered throughout my career. I am not interested in mixing with civilians simply because they have done nothing and have no stories to hold my interest. I am not better than them...I am merely "Different".

Rock Island Ranger · September 9th, 2008, 11:31 am

Silverback wrote:
RangerJurena wrote:I agree with this 100%. I'm no better than the guys in my office, but you can bet I don't socialize with them. We don't drink beer together, BBQ together, hell I barely give them the time of day. My wife and I are a miserable lot, her being with me since RIP, we have nothing in common with the civilian populace and our only friends are either still in or retirees somewhere.
Brother,
I truly have "No friends" outside of the people I have encountered throughout my career. I am not interested in mixing with civilians simply because they have done nothing and have no stories to hold my interest. I am not better than them...I am merely "Different".

Seems most of us have the same malady. No friends outside the circle of soldiers we found worthwhile, and at best a casual disdain for those in the civilian world. At worst, we demonstrate open hostility, and extreme malice. Its a tough juggling act staying out of jail sometimes.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » September 9th, 2008, 11:38 am

Rock Island Ranger wrote:
Silverback wrote:
RangerJurena wrote:I agree with this 100%. I'm no better than the guys in my office, but you can bet I don't socialize with them. We don't drink beer together, BBQ together, hell I barely give them the time of day. My wife and I are a miserable lot, her being with me since RIP, we have nothing in common with the civilian populace and our only friends are either still in or retirees somewhere.
Brother,
I truly have "No friends" outside of the people I have encountered throughout my career. I am not interested in mixing with civilians simply because they have done nothing and have no stories to hold my interest. I am not better than them...I am merely "Different".
Seems most of us have the same malady. No friends outside the circle of soldiers we found worthwhile, and at best a casual disdain for those in the civilian world. At worst, we demonstrate open hostility, and extreme malice. Its a tough juggling act staying out of jail sometimes.

Amen, brother!