Steel, killing, for the use of...

[Ando]

Having seen the articles about knife fighting, i've come up with a few thoughts of my own (takes time...lol). Pafsanias PMed me about the British Army's bayonet charge in Iraq, and i thought i'd start a thread about bayonet drills.

Now,i haven't recieved much training on knife fighting, as in the British Forces it's seen as an unnecessary risk to take. "Why not just shoot the cunt". As many of you know, the British doctrine reflects our tendency to crack a walnut with a howitzer. However, very basic knife fighting is covered in basic h2h training.

The British infantry do, however, focus quite a lot on the use of the bayonet. This training is used not only to train the soldier to kill, but to increase his confidence both in himself and in his training. The bayonet training taught to British soldiers is brutal and hard. And as history shows, it's also effective.

What are you opinions on bayonet fighting? Is this also an obselete art? Or is it a vital and fundamental part of an infantry soldier's armoury.

I personally believe that the bayonet is still one of the most effective weapons on the battlefield, and that a soldier that is confident in it's use is a deadly opponent.

[Flesh Thorn]

I am not very keen on the idea of knife fighting, but the bayonet is a different story. Combined with the reach and mass of the rifle I am confident that I could inflict some lethal damage in close combat. In the words of CSM Purdy,

Boxing, wrestling, and bayonet fighting are not antiquated. MOUT, Trench systems, and bunkers must be cleared, and you had better be aggressive and prepared to do bayonet or hand to hand fighting

I don't know how effective the bayonet is when mounted on a short carbine like the M4, but it still better than trying to knife fight.

[Flesh Thorn]

I don't see where you are in disagreement with me. All things being equal, a bayonet fixed to a rifle is more effective than a knife.

The only advantage you would have against one of those guys is the reach of the bayonet on the rifle versus the reach of there blade. But that advantage would be very slight.

Another advantage a bayonet and rifle would have over a knife fighter would be the versatilty of using the rifle as a club. Also, the length and mass of the bayonet and rifle would enable you to slash with greater force. I remember being taught in Basic that a slash with a bayonet could cleve thru body armor, LBE, and rib cage. I am not a knife fighter and I have never killed anyone with a bayonet ...(yet).., but I'll leave the knife for use as a last resort.

[Parabellum]

It is great for instilling confidence and aggresivness but that is as far as I think it goes. Unless you do it daily. No one has time for that shit.

[Parabellum]

In my ever so fucking humble opinion Ranger H8train, knife fighting will accomplish the same as bayonet fighting with the additional confidence of the soldier feeling he does not need a rifle to be a lethal foe (as in a bayonetted rifle).

A guy on E&E can scam a butcher knife , and if trained in knife fighting , can be reasonably confident that he is armed and lethal as he continues his trip.


Regards,

Point taken.

[Silverback]

The beauty of being built like Gorrilla is that I am always lethal! At least that's what most people assume, they don't see my sensitive side.

[Rgr_MindRiot]

I think that all bayonet training was based on the premis that your opponent would also be armed with rifle/bayonet and therefore you would be engaging an opponent on equal terms. The bayonet training would develope skills and agressiveness in the soldier that would allow him to defeat the enemy. However, if your enemy drops his rifle/bayonet and pulls a machete, e-tool, large knife, just remember, BOTH YOUR HANDS ARE REQUIRED TO DEPLOY YOUR WEAPONS SYSTEM while your opponent requires only one. He can use his off hand to trap, parry, feign, change weapon hand, acquire second weapon etc.

Final thought, nothing wrong with deploying rifle/bayonet system but have a second and third system ready to go and practice deploying it under all different scenarios. Just because the fight starts with one system does not mean it will end with the same.

<~~~~~/:::::)