Combining Air Assault & Badgefinder should've happened eons ago, there there's signifigant overlap.
I wouldn't know squat about RSLC tho'.
Possible combination of PFDR with RSLC
- K.Ingraham
- Ranger
- Posts: 6143
- Joined: January 25th, 2005, 11:59 am
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2d Bn U.D. for 75th Ranger Regt Assn
2d Bn(Ranger)75 Inf 1975-'77
RS 9-76
Former mentor to RANGER XCrunner.
"I am well aware that by no means equal repute attends the narrator and the doer of deeds” Sallust ‘The Catiline Conspiracy’
2d Bn U.D. for 75th Ranger Regt Assn
2d Bn(Ranger)75 Inf 1975-'77
RS 9-76
Former mentor to RANGER XCrunner.
"I am well aware that by no means equal repute attends the narrator and the doer of deeds” Sallust ‘The Catiline Conspiracy’
RSLC,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.
It has taken those guys fucking years to catch up with what you need to do to be successful. Too many of those dudes are stuck with mind set of digging fucking holes and shitting in MRE bag's
It has taken those guys fucking years to catch up with what you need to do to be successful. Too many of those dudes are stuck with mind set of digging fucking holes and shitting in MRE bag's
A co 3/75
RRD
RIP/PRC
Ranger Instructor 4th RTB
H co LRS
WTC
MUTC
#8-91
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"I will never out rank stupid people"
Mentor to Myself
RRD
RIP/PRC
Ranger Instructor 4th RTB
H co LRS
WTC
MUTC
#8-91
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"I will never out rank stupid people"
Mentor to Myself
I don't understand all the courses you are referring to but here is my humble opinion.
My self being a pathfinder in the SADF underwent exactly the same training as the then SADF primary Reconnaissance Unit (The Recces) up to such an extend that we even participated in joint SF operations. But when it came to path finding especially to troops they prefer us to handle it, to such an extend that we were allocated to the Parachute Brigade on a full time basis. Being part of the Paratroopers you then come to understand an know how they operated and do things. But the Pathfinder in the SADF was not only to lay out a DZ or an Helicopter landing zone. Many times we had to infiltrate in , normally by parachute (Free-fall) into an target, check it out by OP's , report back to HQ, so that they can adjust the battle plan , then go an look for an DZ in the bush, lay it out,man it and then lead the planes in, lead the troops to the attack point. (At that stage GPS systems did not exist yet. You do it on a map and air photos).Once the operation were done we determine if any follow up operations were needed and destroy or capture any enemy equipment. You are then also responsible to lead then troops out again after the deployment and take them out of the area. Sometimes we will stay behind to monitor the return of the enemy and if needed disrupt their supply runs or call in an additional attack.
By doing it this way you maximize you application by being not only an airborne deployment specialist but also to be applied as a SF trooper in normal SF tasks.
Conclusion. I believe that all SF troops must be able to be Pathfinders as well to maximize you application.
My self being a pathfinder in the SADF underwent exactly the same training as the then SADF primary Reconnaissance Unit (The Recces) up to such an extend that we even participated in joint SF operations. But when it came to path finding especially to troops they prefer us to handle it, to such an extend that we were allocated to the Parachute Brigade on a full time basis. Being part of the Paratroopers you then come to understand an know how they operated and do things. But the Pathfinder in the SADF was not only to lay out a DZ or an Helicopter landing zone. Many times we had to infiltrate in , normally by parachute (Free-fall) into an target, check it out by OP's , report back to HQ, so that they can adjust the battle plan , then go an look for an DZ in the bush, lay it out,man it and then lead the planes in, lead the troops to the attack point. (At that stage GPS systems did not exist yet. You do it on a map and air photos).Once the operation were done we determine if any follow up operations were needed and destroy or capture any enemy equipment. You are then also responsible to lead then troops out again after the deployment and take them out of the area. Sometimes we will stay behind to monitor the return of the enemy and if needed disrupt their supply runs or call in an additional attack.
By doing it this way you maximize you application by being not only an airborne deployment specialist but also to be applied as a SF trooper in normal SF tasks.
Conclusion. I believe that all SF troops must be able to be Pathfinders as well to maximize you application.
- PocketKings
- Ranger
- Posts: 2017
- Joined: April 20th, 2007, 2:05 pm
I agree. I also think the badges for both should be phased out. I'd even go one further and add fastrope and Heavy PZ with them and make it all a 4 week course. You'd end up with a bevy of skills all related to helicopter insertion and DZ/LZ/PZ setup.K.Ingraham wrote:Combining Air Assault & Badgefinder should've happened eons ago, there there's signifigant overlap.
I wouldn't know squat about RSLC tho'.
RS 01-00
82d (1-325 AIR) 99-00
101st (2-502d IN) 00-03
82d (1-325 AIR) 99-00
101st (2-502d IN) 00-03
On getting out of the "dig hole/shit in MRE baggie" mentality....A big "Hell Yes!!". The Recon/LRS community needs to embrace new tactics and techniques to remain relevent. When we consider that many of our opns are taking place in urban and desert AO's. what worked in the woods of Europe or the jungles of SE Asia won't work here. (Though those tactics and skillsets need to maintained...may need them again.)
Just as the Ranger Regiment and the rest of the force has evolved over the past few years....so does the Recon/LRS community.
Just as the Ranger Regiment and the rest of the force has evolved over the past few years....so does the Recon/LRS community.
RS 1-92
1-504 PIR 89-90
3-504 PIR 90-92
H. Co 121 INF (LRSC) 97-00
134th INF (LRSD)01-02
Back to living the LRS Life in the 143rd LRSD!
Confirmed "Cynical, Sarcastic, Bastard"
1-504 PIR 89-90
3-504 PIR 90-92
H. Co 121 INF (LRSC) 97-00
134th INF (LRSD)01-02
Back to living the LRS Life in the 143rd LRSD!
Confirmed "Cynical, Sarcastic, Bastard"
I couldn't have said it better myself.RRDTm3 wrote:RSLC,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.
It has taken those guys fucking years to catch up with what you need to do to be successful. Too many of those dudes are stuck with mind set of digging fucking holes and shitting in MRE bag's
Neither would anyone in LRS.tnkr111 wrote:Ranger RRDTm3, oddly the Gunny from RSLC that was in my PFDR class said similar things, usually finishing with "A recon Marine wouldn't be caught dead doing that shit."RRDTm3 wrote:It has taken those guys fucking years to catch up with what you need to do to be successful. Too many of those dudes are stuck with mind set of digging fucking holes and shitting in MRE bag's
Like Tenn-RGR said it is the schoolhouse and RSLC's POI is a few years behind current methods. It is RTB after all.
The company I work for goes down to every class as part of their vehicle mobility day. They just bought some digital SLR's from us but only want to allot a whopping 2 hours of training on them. They are slowly getting better but still have a long way to go.Phantom wrote:I couldn't have said it better myself.RRDTm3 wrote:RSLC,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.
It has taken those guys fucking years to catch up with what you need to do to be successful. Too many of those dudes are stuck with mind set of digging fucking holes and shitting in MRE bag's
Neither would anyone in LRS.tnkr111 wrote:Ranger RRDTm3, oddly the Gunny from RSLC that was in my PFDR class said similar things, usually finishing with "A recon Marine wouldn't be caught dead doing that shit."RRDTm3 wrote:It has taken those guys fucking years to catch up with what you need to do to be successful. Too many of those dudes are stuck with mind set of digging fucking holes and shitting in MRE bag's
Like Tenn-RGR said it is the schoolhouse and RSLC's POI is a few years behind current methods. It is RTB after all.
As for Pathfinder, let's face it there is not going to be a LRS/Recce team calling in and landing aircraft as long as 2-4 and the rest of the STS's are out there.
lonergr77
3rd Plt, Cco, 2/75 - Nov '96 to Dec '99
RRD - Dec '99 to Dec '03
TSE Inc - Dec '03 to May '10
RRC Civilian - May '10 -
RC - 3-98
3rd Plt, Cco, 2/75 - Nov '96 to Dec '99
RRD - Dec '99 to Dec '03
TSE Inc - Dec '03 to May '10
RRC Civilian - May '10 -
RC - 3-98