Ergogenic aids (supplements)

[bmf175]

Im sure some of you guys are taking some of these things, and I thought I would post this so you can save your money. All of these studies were done in the USC lab under controlled and carefully planned experiments.

Proven NOT to work:

Arginine, Lysine, Ornithine
B-hydroxyl-B-methylbutyrate
Coenzyme Q-10
Carnitine
Chromium
Choline
Ginseng
Omega-3 fatty acids
Protein Supplements
Vitamin B-12

The above supplemments are the more popular ones that are for sale.

Proven to work:

Carbohydrates- 6% CHO drinks (gatorade, powerade), can increase endurance up to 37% over water, taken before and during exercise.

Caffeine- proven to enhance endurance performance 20-50%, 3-6mg/Kg of body weight (200-500mg) 30-60min prior to exercise, with an effect time of 2-4 hours

Creatine- there are nonconclusive results, but have been shown to increase performance, especially when working your fast twicth type 11a and type 11x muscle fibers.

Just in case you guys still workout or know somebody that does workout I thought I would let you guys know so you can keep from blowing your money.

[PocketKings]

What defines 'work?' For example, CO Q-10 is intended to help the heart if taken over along period of time. How did they measure that and determine it didn't work? Omega 3 fatty acids are another beneficial health suppliment related to the heart, not exercise. Are they looking at performance or health? Were these double blind studies? Who sponsored them?

[Charlie 51]

Creatine- there are nonconclusive results, but have been shown to increase performance, especially when working your fast twicth type 11a and type 11x muscle fibers.

Damn, I was an 11c, guess this shit won't work for me

[Ranger Bill]

Protein does not work? Creatine is inconclusive? Please provide a link to the study. It would be interesting to see what population they used. My guess is that it did not include too many serious iron gamers.

[bmf175]

I thought Protein supplements work...to an extent. That is, if your daily diet isn't high in protein. And whatever protein your body doesn't use ends up getting flushed out of your system.

No protein has been proven to have no impact on exercise performance. The human body is not designed to use protein as a energy source. If your body is using protein as an energy source than there is seriously something wrong with your metabolism.
All the protein your body needs is consumed through a regular diet.

[Earthpig]

I thought Protein supplements work...to an extent. That is, if your daily diet isn't high in protein. And whatever protein your body doesn't use ends up getting flushed out of your system.

No protein has been proven to have no impact on exercise performance. The human body is not designed to use protein as a energy source. If your body is using protein as an energy source than there is seriously something wrong with your metabolism.
All the protein your body needs is consumed through a regular diet.

OK...I'm a dummy........

I never heard of protein supplements being used for energy. I always used them to build muscle. I was always taught (granted, this was back in the Stone Age) that when you lift weights, you are basically tearing down muscle tissue. Your body uses protein, so I was told, to rebuild this tissue. Therefore, if a person is doing a very hardcore exercise program: running, lifting, cardio, etc. a supplemental source of protein would logically assist in equalizing what is being burned off.

Not arguing, just looking for a clearer explanation.....

RLTW
EP

[bmf175]

What defines 'work?' For example, CO Q-10 is intended to help the heart if taken over along period of time. How did they measure that and determine it didn't work? Omega 3 fatty acids are another beneficial health suppliment related to the heart, not exercise. Are they looking at performance or health? Were these double blind studies? Who sponsored them?

All of these supplements are found in the body and normal intake can be beneficial to overall health, but the words- Ergogenic Aids- deal strictly with Performance enhancing abilities.

All of the above mentioned pharmacological aids are naturally found in a diet or in the body, but the effects as far as improving performance when bought specifically for that purpose indicate that they do not work.
As for the accuracy of experiments. The dotors ive met that performed these experiments are world reknown (in other words they are not the "doctors" you see trying to sell hydroxycut on television) and this insitution is the most respected research educational institution in the country for exercise science.

All of our studies are at least single blind studies, because everything is backed up on live tissue (animals) after it has been tested a wide array of individuals, which are designed to be double blind.

Anything I post on exercise (nutrition, workouts) is going to be the most up to date info and backed by science, not word of mouth or what my squad leader did to me so it must be true. The info comes out of lectures and from talking to the different doctors conducting the experiments. I would not post them here for Rangers to rely on unless i had complete faith they were true.

Link?

[bmf175]

I thought Protein supplements work...to an extent. That is, if your daily diet isn't high in protein. And whatever protein your body doesn't use ends up getting flushed out of your system.

No protein has been proven to have no impact on exercise performance. The human body is not designed to use protein as a energy source. If your body is using protein as an energy source than there is seriously something wrong with your metabolism.
All the protein your body needs is consumed through a regular diet.

OK...I'm a dummy........

I never heard of protein supplements being used for energy. I always used them to build muscle. I was always taught (granted, this was back in the Stone Age) that when you lift weights, you are basically tearing down muscle tissue. Your body uses protein, so I was told, to rebuild this tissue. Therefore, if a person is doing a very hardcore exercise program: running, lifting, cardio, etc. a supplemental source of protein would logically assist in equalizing what is being burned off.

Not arguing, just looking for a clearer explanation.....

RLTW
EP

Nope its cool, I know a lot of this stuff is hard to digest because when i first heard this stuff I asked WHY all the time, and its the only reason i am so familiar with the indivduals that conduct the experiments, because i pretty much looked at them as if they were dumbasses.

Muscle relies on protein to be built up. But no one person needs to take in PROTEIN supplements to speed or help this process. Nobody can work themselves SO HARD that protein supplements will be a benefit over just having a good diet.
So in other words you can do a complete body workout and the protein in the extra piece of chicken will be enough protein for you to repair your muscles.

[bmf175]

EarthPig:

OK...I'm a dummy........

I never heard of protein supplements being used for energy. I always used them to build muscle. I was always taught (granted, this was back in the Stone Age) that when you lift weights, you are basically tearing down muscle tissue. Your body uses protein, so I was told, to rebuild this tissue. Therefore, if a person is doing a very hardcore exercise program: running, lifting, cardio, etc. a supplemental source of protein would logically assist in equalizing what is being burned off.

Not arguing, just looking for a clearer explanation.....

That's what I was trying to get at, and you're not a dummy, don't be so hard on yourself . Plus, I never said anything about protein being an energy source or have an impact on one's performance. Protein supplements do, in fact, work....but mostly for the rebuilding and repairment of the muscle tissue after a workout.

Well i think you were typing this while I was typing my last reply. you can keep believing they work if you want. I see what you are saying, if the individuals diet is already lacking protein than protein supplements would work.
Yes, I could see your point. But the only thing i would ask is why the fuck doesnt that individual eat more protein I mean seriously instead of buying a protein supplement, supplements are suppossed to supplement what you already take in, not be the only form being taken in. I guess if there was a fruit and vegetable eating vegetarian that works out like a mad man it then wouldnt be a supplement it would be that persons primary means of protein.

What the list is saying is that as a SUPPLEMENT they do not work. So save your money.

[PocketKings]

Dude, I'm not doubting the sources. I'm doubting period. I see all sorts of reports and like to find the 5 whys. I'm sure the info's legit and vetted, I just like to get the details.

I go to alternate medicine trade shows all the time and hear the other side and ask them the same stuff. After working through the bullshit I can determine which suppliments to purchase for our business to sell. Personally, I think Douglas Labs is the best and has the best research.

Oh, and Ergogenic is too fancy a term for me. Unless we're playing Scrabble. So, that begs the question; What do you define as 'performance?' Are we talking slow/fast twitch or ana/aerobic? Both? Recovery?

[bmf175]

Dude, I'm not doubting the sources. I'm doubting period. I see all sorts of reports and like to find the 5 whys. I'm sure the info's legit and vetted, I just like to get the details.

I go to alternate medicine trade shows all the time and hear the other side and ask them the same stuff. After working through the bullshit I can determine which suppliments to purchase for our business to sell. Personally, I think Douglas Labs is the best and has the best research.

Oh, and Ergogenic is too fancy a term for me. Unless we're playing Scrabble. So, that begs the question; What do you define as 'performance?' Are we talking slow/fast twitch or ana/aerobic? Both? Recovery?

Brother if you can use the word ergogenics in scrabble....YOU the MAN
performance is both. Anything you can consider boosting your exercise/ physical abilities.
Never heard of Douglas labs in the educational research lab world. They appear to be a private research lab.... dont know if i trust an organization that has their own private agendas and at the sme time makes their own products.... I wonder what they would say if asked if any of their products work? Hell Yes they work!!!! would be the reply.

educational institutions do research not to promote or sell their products (because they dont make products) but to use science in an unbiased way to further enhance our knowledge of exercise science.

What I can do is next time i see Dr. Davis or Dr. Durstine is ask for the actual published reports, we are in summer session now and they are in europe trying to convince them that protein supplements dont work. But you have to keep in mind that these are not studies done by EAS or muscletech or any other company that surprising sells the same product they are researching.

Edit:
Well the confusion I caused earlier with earth pig was because i made it sound like Protein was used in the body as a energy source. i corrected my meaning and clarified that any talk about protein is in reference to its ability to aid in recovery. The belief is if you take in more protein which in turn should speed up your recovery and in turn, again, enhance your performance abilities.