STARVATION DIET
STARVATION DIET
I just finished reading the book NO EXCUSES LEADERSHIP by Brace Barber. I thought that the book was great and reveals what ranger school is all about. I think that it clears up a lot of misconceptions held by civilians and non-ranger grads. Many people think that ranger school is where you go to learns tactics and get "pumped up" into great shape. The book revealed that it is a leadership school that uses patrolling...as a training tool. Most students enter the school in great shape and leave in the worst condition of their career due to extreme exertion , sleep depredation, done on a starvation diet. My question to graduates is; do you think it would help or hinder the program to allow students an extra MRE per day? Good soldiers would get less injuries, retain more knowledge, recover faster and be able to contribute to their units upon graduations. I'm just not sure of the training value of learning how to deal with starvation. Think before you reply; I know that most people never want those that follow to have it any easier then they had!
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Creeping Death
- Ranger
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: April 14th, 2003, 10:11 am
Food depravation is an important part of the course. Being a leadership school, it teaches you how to lead a platoon into combat that only wants TWO things - food and sleep, and not necessarily in that order. It teaches you to put the extreme discomfort aside, and just do your job.
If they fed you well in stupid school, it would be more difficult to break the students down, and more difficult to teach them what the course is designed to teach.
What purpose would an extra MRE serve if they soon found themselves in a no shit situation and their support lines were cut? Would they then be able to operate on very little to no food? Probably not. But after graduating Ranger School, very few on this board would worry too much about whether or not our supply lines get interrupted. We'll kick the fucking shit out of them anyway. It doesn't worry Tabs, cause we've all starved before.
And Sobersides is 100% correct about the stress. You are limited in what you can use to simulate extended battlefield stress. And I was always taught that if you learn under stress, you won't forget under stress (real combat).
Just my opinion.
If they fed you well in stupid school, it would be more difficult to break the students down, and more difficult to teach them what the course is designed to teach.
What purpose would an extra MRE serve if they soon found themselves in a no shit situation and their support lines were cut? Would they then be able to operate on very little to no food? Probably not. But after graduating Ranger School, very few on this board would worry too much about whether or not our supply lines get interrupted. We'll kick the fucking shit out of them anyway. It doesn't worry Tabs, cause we've all starved before.
And Sobersides is 100% correct about the stress. You are limited in what you can use to simulate extended battlefield stress. And I was always taught that if you learn under stress, you won't forget under stress (real combat).
Just my opinion.
A Co 1/75 '94-'97
Class 5-96
Class 5-96
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Creeping Death
- Ranger
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: April 14th, 2003, 10:11 am
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Silverback
- Ranger
- Posts: 20118
- Joined: March 7th, 2004, 11:06 pm
- Been thanked: 1 time
Marinevet,
the injuries that remove most candidates from training are injuries they have when they show up. normally a stud will eneter the pipeline up to 18 months prior to school and with the extra PT and attending pre-ranger, candidates are likely to accumulate over-use injuries. The addition of another meal would almost be purely mental because the caloric deficit created by Ranger school could only be overcome by a super supper given at least twice a day.
I think the reason the Army doesn't feed the students what they actually require is because it would an amount of money equivalent to the training budget of an Infantry battalion (tounge in cheek)
the injuries that remove most candidates from training are injuries they have when they show up. normally a stud will eneter the pipeline up to 18 months prior to school and with the extra PT and attending pre-ranger, candidates are likely to accumulate over-use injuries. The addition of another meal would almost be purely mental because the caloric deficit created by Ranger school could only be overcome by a super supper given at least twice a day.
I think the reason the Army doesn't feed the students what they actually require is because it would an amount of money equivalent to the training budget of an Infantry battalion (tounge in cheek)
RC 2-87
3-75 84/85, 95/97
"thnks 4 pratn merku!"
3-75 84/85, 95/97
"thnks 4 pratn merku!"
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Ranger2
To me most of being a Ranger was mental. Once you had done something it was always easier the second time. That is what Ranger school does. Once you suffered through it everything seems easier.
I did things as a Ranger that I had never done before, 10 mile runs, 24 mile road marches, movements through some thick ass bush for klicks on end. But you could continue because either you had done it before or you had done worse. You would see 19 year olds fall out because mentally they couldn't hack it yet, physically they could but they didn't know it yet.
Ranger school just makes everything seem easier and trains you to continue when your body tells you to quit. It took me about a year after Ranger school to really feel right again, but I also went to SERE in that same year so that helped set me back some.
Ranger2
I did things as a Ranger that I had never done before, 10 mile runs, 24 mile road marches, movements through some thick ass bush for klicks on end. But you could continue because either you had done it before or you had done worse. You would see 19 year olds fall out because mentally they couldn't hack it yet, physically they could but they didn't know it yet.
Ranger school just makes everything seem easier and trains you to continue when your body tells you to quit. It took me about a year after Ranger school to really feel right again, but I also went to SERE in that same year so that helped set me back some.
Ranger2
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Silverback
- Ranger
- Posts: 20118
- Joined: March 7th, 2004, 11:06 pm
- Been thanked: 1 time
Ranger school is an innoculation against the stresses of sustained Combat.Ranger2 wrote:To me most of being a Ranger was mental. Once you had done something it was always easier the second time. That is what Ranger school does. Once you suffered through it everything seems easier.
Ranger2
RC 2-87
3-75 84/85, 95/97
"thnks 4 pratn merku!"
3-75 84/85, 95/97
"thnks 4 pratn merku!"
Just wanted to give a slightly different insight, ya'll know me, so take it for what it's worth.
First time through mountains was 1 mre a day, ZERO sleep except for 5 hours before jumping the next day...Desert phase before that was 5-15 minutes sleep a day, no more.
I recycle, and go to gulag to get fat and happy....after gulag, when the new class starts, I sit next to a guy from my platoon at Batt who is in the new class. I feed him everything I don't want, cuz hey, I'm a fat and happy recycle.
He looks at me like a thankful starving dog. Everyone else at the table like a day at the welfare office when the money runs out...anywho....
The class I got recycled to was a "test" class...scientists monitoring them, etc. We got the new improved LRRP meals, which were fucking excellent and tasted fucking great!! Seemed like it gave you better fuel then an MRE. They also gave us gatorade packets, which most of us ate like candy, tho you ain't supposed to.
We slept generally 2-4 hours EVERY night....slept 5-6 the first night....WTF???? It was great, like night and day...could have been also that I was rested for gulag, but the second time thru mountains seemed a hell of a lot easier.
Anyway, don't know what the fuck happened, cuz 90% of us recycles got dropped. Anyways, 2 different experiences in the same phase...
First time through mountains was 1 mre a day, ZERO sleep except for 5 hours before jumping the next day...Desert phase before that was 5-15 minutes sleep a day, no more.
I recycle, and go to gulag to get fat and happy....after gulag, when the new class starts, I sit next to a guy from my platoon at Batt who is in the new class. I feed him everything I don't want, cuz hey, I'm a fat and happy recycle.
He looks at me like a thankful starving dog. Everyone else at the table like a day at the welfare office when the money runs out...anywho....The class I got recycled to was a "test" class...scientists monitoring them, etc. We got the new improved LRRP meals, which were fucking excellent and tasted fucking great!! Seemed like it gave you better fuel then an MRE. They also gave us gatorade packets, which most of us ate like candy, tho you ain't supposed to.
We slept generally 2-4 hours EVERY night....slept 5-6 the first night....WTF???? It was great, like night and day...could have been also that I was rested for gulag, but the second time thru mountains seemed a hell of a lot easier.
Anyway, don't know what the fuck happened, cuz 90% of us recycles got dropped. Anyways, 2 different experiences in the same phase...
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Rock Island Ranger
- Ranger
- Posts: 10935
- Joined: February 8th, 2004, 10:00 pm
Everybody posted very real and very good thoughts and facts. The hidden values of the stress of no sleep, no food was that everyone I talked to became intimately aware of their own limitations. How they acted, how the dealt with "lack". Personally, it became a yard stick for me. I knew where the limitation lines were, knew what would happen if I crossed them ect...I did not like any aspect of the school when I was there but I came to value the lessons I learned in a very personal way.
Later, as a leader///SL. PSG, 1SG....I KNEW what men could handle, I knew what I could handle....I knew the signs when they approached their line....when I say it redefines your ability as a leader, it is a fact. Now, some men become assholes on this because they are "TABBED" and take that to an extreme of calling anyone who sufferes a pussy. The good leader, the seasoned leader, the ones who understand men under stress look deeper than the fatigue....they see where the line is for their men and continually strive to have their men stretch those lines further and further....where the men know where the line is and how to manage warriors who play near the line. Ranger School is a leadership School and anyone who comes out of it just to have another scare badge and join some dick measuring club have lost the real value of the school.
Later, as a leader///SL. PSG, 1SG....I KNEW what men could handle, I knew what I could handle....I knew the signs when they approached their line....when I say it redefines your ability as a leader, it is a fact. Now, some men become assholes on this because they are "TABBED" and take that to an extreme of calling anyone who sufferes a pussy. The good leader, the seasoned leader, the ones who understand men under stress look deeper than the fatigue....they see where the line is for their men and continually strive to have their men stretch those lines further and further....where the men know where the line is and how to manage warriors who play near the line. Ranger School is a leadership School and anyone who comes out of it just to have another scare badge and join some dick measuring club have lost the real value of the school.
RS Class # 7-76
I'm not the way I am because I was a Ranger - I was a Ranger because of the way I am.
¿Querría usted el primer redondo en la rodilla o la cara?
The road goes on forever and the party never ends.
I'm not the way I am because I was a Ranger - I was a Ranger because of the way I am.
¿Querría usted el primer redondo en la rodilla o la cara?
The road goes on forever and the party never ends.
Ahh, yes, a point I forgot to address, that Pastor brought up....
Lootenant, feel free to insert your smart ass comment picture here.
"I didn't get my tab, but I sure got the point!"
I learned about lack of food and sleep and that yes, it is possible to go 5 or more days straight with ZERO sleep and still perform basic infantry functions.
I'm glad I went, and I'm glad I got the experience...Teaches you a lot about yourself...*and* it teaches you that Turd Batters are still Blue Falcons, even in hooah school....
3rd batter AB of a 3-man 60 team, approaches our 2-man 60 team: You guys need to carry this for us....BM: Dude, we have our own, you carry your own shit......3rd Batter: *throws fit*.......BM: Look fag, we are a 2 man gun, carrying shit for a 3-man gun...and now you want us to carry something for you, because you are too lazy?....did I get that right??? 3rd Batter stomps off......
Lootenant, feel free to insert your smart ass comment picture here.
"I didn't get my tab, but I sure got the point!"
I learned about lack of food and sleep and that yes, it is possible to go 5 or more days straight with ZERO sleep and still perform basic infantry functions.
I'm glad I went, and I'm glad I got the experience...Teaches you a lot about yourself...*and* it teaches you that Turd Batters are still Blue Falcons, even in hooah school....
3rd batter AB of a 3-man 60 team, approaches our 2-man 60 team: You guys need to carry this for us....BM: Dude, we have our own, you carry your own shit......3rd Batter: *throws fit*.......BM: Look fag, we are a 2 man gun, carrying shit for a 3-man gun...and now you want us to carry something for you, because you are too lazy?....did I get that right??? 3rd Batter stomps off......
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Saltbitch
MARINEvet, I would personally appreciate it if you would address my friend as Ranger Creeping Death. Not trying to bust your balls; it's just that we try to set a standard for the DEP's and kids on the site, not to mention that it's site policy. I appreciate your compliance in this matter.MARINEvet wrote:... including you CREEPING DEATH.
Sorry for the 'thread jack'.
Proceed, gentlemen.....
