SF Lifestyle

[Ranger Bill]

Very intereting... even a FOG like me can learn new things from guys who have never served on a team.

[Kaltherz]

Holmchicken: I was not calling you lazy, not in the slightest. I have a huge respect for what you guys do. The next line I wrote "That's not true at all" referring to what I had said previously. Maybe that was not obvious, and I appologize. What you said "I work when I have to, and not when I don't" is what I was trying to express.

Just because I'm support doesn't mean I don't have some idea of what's going on. Was something that I said incorrect? If it was, by all means call me on it and I'll concede my mistakes.

Do I have long hair? Yes, I do actually. It's well within regulation, however. I don't have long hair because I want to look like a cool guy, I have long hair because I've always had long hair. If I'm in a place where I don't have to shave it, I'm not going to do something I don't like to do. I am absolutely not "that guy", I don't ever lose my bearing. I know how to show respect and I do, always.

I really do understand where you're coming from, support guys do screw stuff up. But not all of us. It isn't universally true, but the guys that I work with on a day to day basis are remarkably talented individuals. Slotted for a group spot because they're the best at what they do. I'm sorry about support guys that ruin shit for you guys, but you can't label someone you hardly know because I made a comment about how group is. Why the hell should I have to sit there with nothing to do all day? Your deployments are less frequent than HHC's. I'm sorry if I'm not an action arm, but if you don't know, ask how often your HHC deploys. I can't speak for other units but for 10th or 5th group, it's pretty fucking often. In the IZ I work every fucking day, 12 hours a day with no time off for an undisclosed period of time. No, I'm not out on missions all the time, but I work damn hard to make sure that you guys can do what you need to do.

If you feel I've disrespected you in anyway, I assure you that that was far from my goal. You can't let a few shitty support guys ruin your opinion of the whole lot of us.

I'll get off my soap box now.

[Tupac]

Timmy, cback0220. Maybe you guys should actually finish the course and get assigned to a team before saying it's gay. Just a thought. It's like saying Battalion is gay and you haven't even finished RIP yet. Yeah, the course is gay, but pay attention to what's being taught. Coming from Batt, the guys on your team will expect you to pick up the ball and run with immediately. Put your best foot forward and don't make the Regiment look like a bunch of prima donas'.

Holmchicken, I was joking. I have no idea what it's like to be on a team. I expect that it will be awesome, or I wouldn't have come to the course.

That is all.

[Oto-Man]

Very intereting... even a FOG like me can learn new things from guys who have never served on a team.

[The Holmchicken]

Holmchicken: I was not calling you lazy, not in the slightest. I have a huge respect for what you guys do. The next line I wrote "That's not true at all" referring to what I had said previously. Maybe that was not obvious, and I appologize. What you said "I work when I have to, and not when I don't" is what I was trying to express.

Just because I'm support doesn't mean I don't have some idea of what's going on. Was something that I said incorrect? If it was, by all means call me on it and I'll concede my mistakes.

Do I have long hair? Yes, I do actually. It's well within regulation, however. I don't have long hair because I want to look like a cool guy, I have long hair because I've always had long hair. If I'm in a place where I don't have to shave it, I'm not going to do something I don't like to do. I am absolutely not "that guy", I don't ever lose my bearing. I know how to show respect and I do, always.

I really do understand where you're coming from, support guys do screw stuff up. But not all of us. It isn't universally true, but the guys that I work with on a day to day basis are remarkably talented individuals. Slotted for a group spot because they're the best at what they do. I'm sorry about support guys that ruin shit for you guys, but you can't label someone you hardly know because I made a comment about how group is. Why the hell should I have to sit there with nothing to do all day? Your deployments are less frequent than HHC's. I'm sorry if I'm not an action arm, but if you don't know, ask how often your HHC deploys. I can't speak for other units but for 10th or 5th group, it's pretty fucking often. In the IZ I work every fucking day, 12 hours a day with no time off for an undisclosed period of time. No, I'm not out on missions all the time, but I work damn hard to make sure that you guys can do what you need to do.

If you feel I've disrespected you in anyway, I assure you that that was far from my goal. You can't let a few shitty support guys ruin your opinion of the whole lot of us.

I'll get off my soap box now.

I'll tell you what set me off. You, not an SF guy, commenting about the SF lifestyle. Just what do you know about team life? I know a little, but it's damn sight more than you and I don't even feel qualified to comment. And I don't want to hear about you and fucking soap box again. Ranger Timmy can get away with saying shit because he's been around and he's not an x-ray.

[Kaltherz]

Being assigned to an SF unit, working with team guys on a daily basis and having done quite a bit of research into the subject myself (being interested in pursuing that path, myself) affords me a little bit of knowledge. Do I know everything? No. Would I claim to? Obviously not. Would I answer a question definitively that I did not have the answer to? Absolutely not.

Once again, if I have said anything incorrect, call me on it. You're pulling a "cooler than thou" move, which is not cool.

What qualifies you to talk about what a politician does without being one? Or any other profession, for that matter. What qualifies you to tell me that I don't have any idea what I'm talking about. Without corroborating evidence that I do not.

Whatever, shit isn't that important. I understand your point, try to understand mine.

[Kaltherz]

Timmy,

you got me on the BCT shit, I don't know why I put that on there.

But my AIT is 8 months long after everything is said and done, a few months shy of a hardship tour.

[The Holmchicken]

Once again, if I have said anything incorrect, call me on it. You're pulling a "cooler than thou" move, which is not cool.

Guess what? Don't care. What's incorrect is that you are trying to give advice on SF/team life when you are not SF and not on a team. Since you're so big into research, research this little quandry: This is a Ranger website and I have "Ranger" under my name. Don't like how you're being talked to, go to the GSSC or GSB or whatever website and expound on your expertise and experience. Until such time as you have made the trip into either a shooter in the Regiment or 18 series, keep your observations on such finite topics as this to what you know. When we get into a big, in depth topographical analysis discussion on this site, feel free to guide the topic as you see fit. Until then, know your lane.

[Oto-Man]

Once again, if I have said anything incorrect, call me on it. You're pulling a "cooler than thou" move, which is not cool.

Guess what? Don't care. What's incorrect is that you are trying to give advice on SF/team life when you are not SF and not on a team. Since you're so big into research, research this little quandry: This is a Ranger website and I have "Ranger" under my name. Don't like how you're being talked to, go to the GSSC or GSB or whatever website and expound on your expertise and experience. Until such time as you have made the trip into either a shooter in the Regiment or 18 series, keep your observations on such finite topics as this to what you know. When we get into a big, in depth topographical analysis discussion on this site, feel free to guide the topic as you see fit. Until then, know your lane.

Shot out.....

(oh LUNA, where are't thou?)---I feel a kawoosh.....

[Kaltherz]

Once again, if I have said anything incorrect, call me on it. You're pulling a "cooler than thou" move, which is not cool.

Guess what? Don't care. What's incorrect is that you are trying to give advice on SF/team life when you are not SF and not on a team. Since you're so big into research, research this little quandry: This is a Ranger website and I have "Ranger" under my name. Don't like how you're being talked to, go to the GSSC or GSB or whatever website and expound on your expertise and experience. Until such time as you have made the trip into either a shooter in the Regiment or 18 series, keep your observations on such finite topics as this to what you know. When we get into a big, in depth topographical analysis discussion on this site, feel free to guide the topic as you see fit. Until then, know your lane.

I'm tracking.

When we get into a big, in depth topographical analysis discussion on this site, feel free to guide the topic as you see fit.

That had the simultaneous effect of knocking the wind out of me, and driving your point home. I'm not even mad, I'm impressed, lol.

I hear you though, good game.

[Nomad]

Timmy,

you got me on the BCT shit, I don't know why I put that on there.

But my AIT is 8 months long after everything is said and done, a few months shy of a hardship tour.

You are about one smartass remark away from being banned.

Nobody gives a shit about AIT here and you can bet the farm on the fact that if you aren't in Regiment as a line dog or a team guy then nobody here wants to hear about your vast experience with the SF lifestyle.

So your best bet right now is to edit that gay ass shit out of your signature line, humble yourself severely and figure out where you stand in the food chain.

[GSXRanger]

Timmy,

you got me on the BCT shit, I don't know why I put that on there.

But my AIT is 8 months long after everything is said and done, a few months shy of a hardship tour.

What's your MOS?

8 month AIT??? Dood, how did you survive TRADOC for so long?

Word of advice... You are a Vetran, and we all honor your service... but, you are NOT a Ranger. Nor, are you a long tabber... so, in the end... you are still a guest here, as am I.

Watch your step, stay in your lane... there are ways to debate a topic, smartly, without elevating to cock measuring.

Again, what is your MOS?

[GSXRanger]

Nomad was all over it. I missed your post T, sorry about that.

GSX Out.

[The Holmchicken]

Once again, if I have said anything incorrect, call me on it. You're pulling a "cooler than thou" move, which is not cool.

Guess what? Don't care. What's incorrect is that you are trying to give advice on SF/team life when you are not SF and not on a team. Since you're so big into research, research this little quandry: This is a Ranger website and I have "Ranger" under my name. Don't like how you're being talked to, go to the GSSC or GSB or whatever website and expound on your expertise and experience. Until such time as you have made the trip into either a shooter in the Regiment or 18 series, keep your observations on such finite topics as this to what you know. When we get into a big, in depth topographical analysis discussion on this site, feel free to guide the topic as you see fit. Until then, know your lane.

I'm tracking.

When we get into a big, in depth topographical analysis discussion on this site, feel free to guide the topic as you see fit.

That had the simultaneous effect of knocking the wind out of me, and driving your point home. I'm not even mad, I'm impressed, lol.

I hear you though, good game.

So you're impressed that a knuckle dragger such as myself can type, read and research? Whatever.

[ma91c1an]

Yeah, the course is gay, but pay attention to what's being taught. Coming from Batt, the guys on your team will expect you to pick up the ball and run with immediately. Put your best foot forward and don't make the Regiment look like a bunch of prima donas'.

This is about the smartest thing posted in this thread, yet.

In my era (note that I say "era," and not "in my day," because it was a long time ago that I left Bat and went to Group myself), former Bat boys on ODAs were the heat. We were more seasoned, more experienced, and we knew how to soldier. It was almost like you could tell a former Ranger from that era's version of an 18X at a glance.

It was the simple, fundamental stuff. When we went to the bush, we soldiered. No fires, no fucking camp chairs. We observed stand-to, by the numbers. We trained, and we trained to standard, because in Group, we had the liberty to do our own planning. And when I say that we trained to standard, I do not mean the standard in the AR. I mean the real world standard. Our team sergeants in those days were Vietnam veterans.

I mean, what a fucking boon. No canned bullshit from the S-shops. We planned, organized, and coordinated our own training. If a vehicle was not on station, we knew which guy on the team had not followed through and double checked to make it happen. If a range was not ready, we knew who was wrong. Going from Battalion to Group was amazing in those days, because you went from an environment of total discipline to one where discipline was self-imposed, you were given the rope to hang yourself, and if you wanted to make yourself and your Battalion look like shit, you could.

We were hell on that, though. We had the prestige, honor, and high esprit d'corps of our Ranger Battalions to uphold, and even though we were wearing green hats rather than black ones, we never forgot where we came from, and we policed our own.

I have no idea what it is like on an ODA these days. In my era, it was pretty cool. As was stated, the team sergeant set the tone. My team sergeant was a former platoon sergeant in Battalion, who had also served on an ODA in Vietnam. He and I were the lone Bat boys on our ODA, so we were thicker than thieves. The guys on our ODA followed our lead, and we did some great training. Very unconventional, incorporating the best elements of SF and Battalion as they existed in that era. We were competent as hell in the field. Our planning was goddamned good. Our team commanders just leaned back and let us tell them what to do. They kept the company commander off our butts, and they served as a sanity check.

It was a different Army, and a different era.

The head space and timing in Group was radically different from Battalion in those days. I packed on about ten pounds of muscle after I left Battalion, because our deployment schedule was slower, and we had more control over where we went, and when, and we were able to incorporate gym time. We had more control over our diets. We also did a hell of a lot more rucking in Group, which stresses different muscles than running. We were some running motherfuckers in Battalion, and we did not really have time to lift weights so much. There was no gym in the 2d Bat compound at that time, and the "compound," per se, did not exist as it does today. So going to Group was a relief. My body was worn out after four years in Battalion, and I was ready to back off on the running, and to focus more on rucking and on weights. I remember one day I went back to A Co to visit the boys, and I ran into LG in the hallway. He was saying "look at you! Goddamn, Ranger! You got big!" And he did not mean fat.

The admonition to pay attention in class is a good one, though. As I say, Battalion and Group were very different in that era, and I am sure that it is true today, as well. The missions are radically different. One of the primary things that I picked up in Group was the whole "sensitivity to other cultures" aspect. I do not know what is taught in the Q these days, but back in 1984, and then again in 1994 (when I went back as an O), learning to work with HN counterparts was a primary focus.

A pure Ranger line grunt might have some difficulty making the transition, but there was room for all types. If a guy did not have the finesse to evolve into a good 18F, there was no sin in being a great weapons sergeant. In those days, there were guys on ODAs who made SFC, then stayed on their ODA until they retired, or they got poached to run one of the companies. Some guys were not a good fit for team sergeant slots, so some guys did not get them.

I could go on and on and on. These reminiscences are probably not so valuable, if only due to the time that has passed. To sum up, going to Group from Battalion in my era was a very cool thing to do. It was rewarding, it was good for Group, it was good for the Army, and it was very good for the individual Ranger, as long as he could make the transition to the SF mind set.