Ranger LRRP Effectiveness

LRRP, LRP, RRD, LRSD, LRSU, etc...
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Brad27
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Ranger LRRP Effectiveness

Post by Brad27 »

LRRP Rangers,
I have been reading this book that I checked out from the School Library called U.S. Rangers From Boot Camp to the Battle Zones by Ian Padden. In this book he states:

"One of the missions that is sometimes associated with the Rangers is that of long-range reconnaissance. It's a nice idea, but it's just not the right utilization of the Rangers."

and also says, "They are trained and oriented to exert enormous effort over limited periods; consequetly, long-range reconnaissance is not an appropriate mission."

I was kinda thinking "WTF", I mean, Rangers go through some of the hardest training there is in the Military, and was surprised by these statements. When I was thinking about it, I was thinking that LRRPs would be perfectly suited for the Rangers becuase they are independent, can adapt to any situation, and can push farther and harder than the average soldier. He also says that one reason why Rangers aren't suited well for LRRPs is becuase they lack:

"heavy weapons and equipment and indirect fire support. They do not have extra ammunition and thus, staying power."

I also got to thinking when he stated this, that a LRRP of Rangers, would not need heavy weapons or equipment, so that they can stay more mobile and undetected and as for the "extra ammunition" he was reffering to, I was pretty sure the point of a Reconnaissance mission was to not have direct contact with the enemy, and not stay in one place to make a stand like the Alamo, therefore not needing the "staying power". LRRP Rangers, what are your thoughts on the authors statements, is this a bunch of bull shit or is there some truth to it and I'm just a dumb fuck?
Any input would be appreciated. Thank you.
Last edited by Brad27 on March 9th, 2005, 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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trackerteam6
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LRRP's

Post by trackerteam6 »

The LRRP units from Vietnam all converted to RANGER companies in 1968. LRS is what LRRP/LRP used to be. Although we did run ambushes with 3 to 5 teams (team is 6 men) we were used mostly in the 25th INF DIV for recon. I have agood friend who was in LRRP's in 1966/67 on his first tour in Vietnam. His second tour was in 1969, he went over to the RANGER Company and was told he wasn't qualified, and he was one of the original 25 guys that formed the unit in the first place.
25th INF Div, LRRP, "D" Troop 3/4th CAV 1966-1967, 6th Combat Tracker Team & 66th Combat Tracker Platoon 1967-1970

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Silverback
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Post by Silverback »

Brad,
How about you take them time to create a reable version of this post? Try some spacing and maybe group your post into "paragraphs". Besides the question is only theoretical because "LRRP Units" no longer exit in the Army.
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Brad27
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Post by Brad27 »

Roger that Ranger Silverback, just edited my post for better reading. Sorry for the clumped up shit i put up there. Anyways, Ranger Silverback, I understand that the Army doesnt use LRRP anymore, but during the time that they were used, I dont think that they were totaly ineffective or useless. I was just wondering how the concept of a fighting unit like this can be tossed aside considering what they had done and the potential of such a group.
Last edited by Brad27 on March 9th, 2005, 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Silverback
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Post by Silverback »

Brad27 wrote:Roger that Ranger Silverback, just edited my post for better reading. Sorry for the clumped up shit i put up there. Anyways, Ranger Silverback, I understand that the Army doesnt use LRRP anymore, but during the time that they were used, I dont think that they were totaly ineffective or useless. I was just wondering how the concept of a fighting unit like this can be tossed aside considering what they had done and the potential of such a group.
OK I'll take your challenge! Do an essay comparing the tactics and equipment of LRRPs to a Modern Ranger squad...1000 words go!
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Brad27
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Post by Brad27 »

Silverback wrote:
Brad27 wrote:Roger that Ranger Silverback, just edited my post for better reading. Sorry for the clumped up shit i put up there. Anyways, Ranger Silverback, I understand that the Army doesnt use LRRP anymore, but during the time that they were used, I dont think that they were totaly ineffective or useless. I was just wondering how the concept of a fighting unit like this can be tossed aside considering what they had done and the potential of such a group.
OK I'll take your challenge! Do an essay comparing LRRPs to a Modern Ranger squad...1000 words go!
Will do, when would you like it done by Ranger Silverback? Im sure Im missing some info and that is why you are giving me this assignment, so thank for your help.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Silverback
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Post by Silverback »

Brad27 wrote:
Silverback wrote:
Brad27 wrote:Roger that Ranger Silverback, just edited my post for better reading. Sorry for the clumped up shit i put up there. Anyways, Ranger Silverback, I understand that the Army doesnt use LRRP anymore, but during the time that they were used, I dont think that they were totaly ineffective or useless. I was just wondering how the concept of a fighting unit like this can be tossed aside considering what they had done and the potential of such a group.
OK I'll take your challenge! Do an essay comparing LRRPs to a Modern Ranger squad...1000 words go!
Will do, when would you like it done by Ranger Silverback? Im sure Im missing some info and that is why you are giving me this assignment, so thank for your help.
I do not assign timelines to my assignments. I feel the quality of the work is relative to the time it takes to do it.
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Brad27
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Post by Brad27 »

Understood.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Silverback
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Post by Silverback »

Your title will mark you until I receive your assignment, so feel free to take your time. :shock:
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Post by lrsrangerw8 »

"Do an essay comparing LRRPs to a Modern Ranger squad." Now Ranger Silverback, that could turn out to be quite a long essay if he put some work into the subject.
I think the comparison between the two, using the modern LRS and a Ranger squad, would be a diffrent as night and day. The LRS team doesnt have the firepower to seek out and engage the enemy. All we have are those little M-4s with a couple of crappy 9mms. The majority of our weight comes from all the radio systems we carry and the batteries to keep them running.
Although I would be willing to bet that a E-4 on a LRS team is light years ahead in mission planning than his peer in Ranger Regiment, unless he is in RRD (soon to become the RRC).
"That's why I like Bush. He doesn't over-think it. He wakes up every morning, jumps out of bed, lands on his two feet, scratches his balls, and says, "Let's kill some ****ing terrorists"
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Silverback
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Post by Silverback »

lrsrangerw8 wrote:"Do an essay comparing LRRPs to a Modern Ranger squad." Now Ranger Silverback, that could turn out to be quite a long essay if he put some work into the subject.
I think the comparison between the two, using the modern LRS and a Ranger squad, would be a diffrent as night and day. The LRS team doesnt have the firepower to seek out and engage the enemy. All we have are those little M-4s with a couple of crappy 9mms. The majority of our weight comes from all the radio systems we carry and the batteries to keep them running.
Although I would be willing to bet that a E-4 on a LRS team is light years ahead in mission planning than his peer in Ranger Regiment, unless he is in RRD (soon to become the RRC).
Thanks for you input and tell Craig I said Hello! :shock:
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,

Post by Chiron »

I understand that LRS and Ranger missions are very different.

In LRS if you fire your weapon you are compromised and the mission ends. You are there for surveillance and recon. They are quieter and although they go in do it and come out, the best mission is one that the enemy never found out about.

Rangers in general are a destructive force that is also used for rescue and recovery as well. Missions like Grenada, Panama etc… They go in do it and come out. They usually leave behind death and destruction or some thing stolen or someone saved. Rangers are used for missions requiring firepower, surprise and much more.

The Ranger is much more flexible where as the LRS has a specific mission. When I joined LRSD in 1987 we were all Ranger qualified which is 100% helpful to the mission. The newbies that came in were fresh and not Ranger qualified. We carried all the weight of the mission and they came along for the ride. That was the beginning. They learned and some were up to the mission. In fact as long as we maintained Ranger standards the learning was easier for them.

That’s my $0.02 worth.
RS Class 5-82
French Commando 11-83
LRSLC Class 5-87
U.S. Army 1980-1984 and 1987-1990
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George S. Patton

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Post by Slowpoke »

Trying to compare LRRPs with a modern Ranger squad is like comparing a Model T with a new Maserratti. I've seen what a modern LRS Team can do and it's like Cro Magnon Man meets Star Wars. The tactics are similar to what we did, but the technological advances have changed everything. It would be BIG FUN to be on a modern LRS Team!!!! :twisted:
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Brad27
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Post by Brad27 »

Ranger Silverback, I am still making a comparison between LRRPs and Modern Ranger Squads correct? Or am I now making or including a comparison between LRS and Modern Ranger Squads?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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lrsrangerw8
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Modern LRS

Post by lrsrangerw8 »

The main drawback of being LRS is that you are attached to MI. Simply speaking, most MI people (being politically correct) dont know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to understanding what a LRS team can do. They are all wrapped up in this high tech stuff, which has its good point, but when the weather gets bad, all that high tech stuff is worthless. Besides, they like to suck all of your budget for the toys they think they need. It gets worse if there is a CI unit inside that MI battalion. They think they are James Bond and need all that cool velcro, which gets you killed cause of the noise, and the radios that we use.
"That's why I like Bush. He doesn't over-think it. He wakes up every morning, jumps out of bed, lands on his two feet, scratches his balls, and says, "Let's kill some ****ing terrorists"
- Dennis Miller

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